“Give Them Hope”

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Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee for vice president, speaks on Saudi Arabia and how the US administration should deal with the Saudi government. I will join some American friends tomorrow night for an election night party. Due to time difference the party will start around midnight here, so that should be fun :-) [via]

29 thoughts on ““Give Them Hope””

  1. He makes some useful, albeit obvious, comments.
    One comment that is noteworthy is the notion that the ideological views of the ulemaa can be likened to heroin or cocaine.
    That the Kingdom must engage in a profound self-examination of all of its premises and rationales for existence, I think, is undoubtedly true.
    Whether the ulemaa would ever allow for such a questioning of their own role, which is at the very centre of the government’s power, is a question that I believe grounds for serious misgivings exist.
    Biden does make the point that there must be many more areas than religious institutions in which one can hold a public discussion of ideas.

    This is especially true because the ulemaa control and censor discussions held in religious institutions.

  2. I had no idea senator Biden had this view of Saudi Arabia. He certainly has some knowledge but as a Saudi living in the U.S. I can see why he feels some way.

    People in Saudi Arabia are stubborn and proud. They don’t want to work in certain places, I don’t think there is any Saudi that is a garbage man, and you can hardly find a Saudi mechanic or a Saudi running his own store…there is always someone from asia (India, Pakistan, etc) that is there to do the job…and yet, we are full of unemployment.

    But hey, there is no country that is perfect, but all are trying.

  4. Whites need to stop lording over others. I am sick and tired of these a-holes interfering in the affairs of others. Biden is a zionist neocon, only an idiot would think this crook means the peoples of the region any good.
    Dude, find something better to do with your time then watching American “elections” which in the end mean nothing. Faces change, policies don’t.

  8. This interview is from 2004, when Biden was simply a Senator on the Foreign Relations Committee. It may not necessarily reflect his views (or his abilities) as Vice President. It is quite often the case that it’s easier to say something from the wings when you don’t have to face the actual responsibility to accomplish something.

    While Biden clearly knows something about the KSA, his wisdom is limited. It’s not for the oil fields that Saudi Arabia depends on imported labor. Oil fields, in fact, are not labor intensive.

    It is more the case that Saudis would rather pay somebody else to do unpleasant jobs. That’s only natural, to some extent–we don’t see people in any developed country lining up to work in the sewers, after all. The problem is that Saudi society has drawn the threshold of ‘acceptable’ work so high that society suffers as a result.

    Why can’t Saudi women work as maids, if they choose to do so? Why must a Saudi male put up with abuse if he chooses to work with his hands?

    Biden is also wrong about ‘no government has ever given up power’. Bahrain when from an Emirate to a constitutional democracy, following leadership from above. Kuwait is bound increasingly by expanded powers of its parliament (for better or worse).

    I have to laugh at the characterization of Biden as a ‘neo-con’! Biden is the second most liberal member of the US Senate. (Obama is the first.) If there ever was a perfect political opposite, it would certainly be Biden and neo-cons!

  9. I think greater concentration needs to be emphasized on increasing Imams ‘(Mosque Religious Leaders) and Muathens’ (Callers to Prayer) general competencies as well as salaries. There should be higher criteria put in place before someone takes charge of being a community leader. Imams should also be involved in more hands on activity based community work (not destructive type…constructive type) and be trained in those areas. They need re-educated or reprogrammed because unfortunately they have been mind controlled Monarch programmed. If there are radicals or those who preach hate in the mosques, they should be punished by being disgraced and people need to report these incidences to the proper authorities without fear of retribution.

    Education wise stop all the kickbacks and stealing of funds and things will slowly begin to straigten up. That is my take for now…

  10. “The problem is that Saudi society has drawn the threshold of ‘acceptable’ work so high that society suffers as a result.” John Burgess
    I totally agree with you.

  11. Unapologetic African // Tuesday, November 4, 2008 at 23:06

    Whites need to stop lording over others. I am sick and tired of these a-holes interfering in the affairs of others. […]

    i totally and wholeheartedly agree with you. the only thing i would like to add is that it is not only ‘whites’ that should ‘stop lording over others’ but all people, regardless of race or religion. haven’t we got muslim arabs fiercely criticising the west for their liberal lifestyle? haven’t we got angry imams calling western women ‘whores’ just because they don’t walk about dressed like saudi women? haven’t we got thousands of muslims demanding islamic law in britain? haven’t we got angry muslims blowing up themselves to kill innocent civilians?

    your comment is right on. however, only if we extend it to all mankind, whites and blacks, etc etc. condemning ‘whites’ for certain behaviours while retaining the right of ‘non-whites’ for the same behaviours is pure and simple hypocrisy

    live and let live i say

  12. @John Burgess,
    Time to do your homework my friend. Biden is a neocon(most of whom are socially liberally) and a committed zionist. He was put on the ticket to “beef up” Obama’s chances with the more hawkish Dems.

    @Brownie,
    You are sadly mistaken. Arabs have a dim view of the West b/c of decades of colonialism, supporting terrorism, client regimes, Israel and the like. Ever heard of the Iraq war? As for Western woman, it may not be polite to say it but if you sleep around with multiple partners(highest in New Zealand with around 15-25 partners) leading a promiscuous life style you’d be identified as a “whore” by anyone, not just Imams. If that’s how they prefer to live, great. Just quit referring to less promiscuous as “oppressed.”
    As for blowing up civilians, if you tally the numbers you’ll see that its Uncle Sam who is doing most of the killing. 9/11 was not even 1% of 1% of 1% of the damage that the USA had committed to nations like Iraq or Vietnam, or the debt starvation that the USA had inflicted in Africa and South America. No ones excusing terrorism here, but lets not fool ourselves into false moral equivalence.

    Whites needs to quit mucking around in other peoples countries and telling others how to live and go about their daily business. I don’t Africans or Arabs bulding 100s of military bases around the world so its not hypocrisy to point out the double standards. Read your history books and get over yourselves already.

  13. It is only the corrupt Africans who allowed such misuse of their resources by WHITES. Don’t forget also that blacks sold other blacks into slavery. Stop blaming everyone for your shitty situation in life. Do something about it. All you have up your sleeve is a whining boo hoo. Are you a man by the way? I really doubt it. You have a sad song which is “Pathetic me”. Give me a break!

    I am sick and tired of only women being labelled promiscuous. Men are whores too…

    And as long as you want to bring race into the equation go look into the stats on your race of people regarding promiscuity and AIDS for that matter! Muslim included.

    Thank you

  14. Piss off sparky,
    I am sick and tired of white apologists and nay sayers downplaying their role in global instability and terrorism. You can tell us to “stop blaming others” when you’re out of our political, economics, military and cultural affairs. Get out of Africa, the Middle East, South America etc. If not, quit whining like a bitch when your soldiers are targeted.
    As for your woman being promiscuous, it takes 2 to tango so who’s forcing woman to give it up? Seriously, 20-30 partners(very promiscuous) and you go around lecturing others on woman’s rights? What a sick joke. BTW idiot AIDS is a man made virus was let loose in Africa by French and Belgian scientists who used the polio program to infect millions in the 60s and 70s.
    Do your reading, and get back to me when you find those Iraqi WMDs.

  15. Oh I am sorry I thought AIDS came from sex with monkeys! On the “down low” with the monkeys! Are you familiar with the down low?

    Oh I am not whining when the soldiers are targeted (that is a risk they take)…but there are plenty of people who appreciate what they do. That is all I am saying…I would like to say there are more people who appreciate them than those who don’t IMO.

    Give a break about the whole promiscuity thing…yes it takes two to tango which means men are whores too!

    I will continue to “piss off” at every opportunity that God gives me. God Bless

  18. dear unapologetic african,

    your comments are well established. however, i can only repeat my previous post. you are condemning one group of people for doing something, while cheering another group (your own, i assume) for doing the same

    your point about promiscuity is also interesting. it is true that some (SOME, i repeat) women may have many partners. however, they do it for their own sexual pleasure and not for material benefit. so, i would not call them ‘whores’, as ‘whore’ implies ‘sex for money’.

    and the thing with the ‘less promiscuous’. i dont really know who you refer to. believe me, if the pressure and threats were off the women you call ‘less promiscuous’ they would behave pretty much the same as women elsewhere. we perceive them as ‘less promiscuous’, very true, simply because we (and they) never got the chance to see how promiscuous they would be if it was up to them only.

    and, finally, what if a woman has had 25 partners? she is not a car that deteriorates with the number of owners (as i assume you see it). she is a human being. ever occurred to you?

    i don’t think we are going to establish any sort of understanding or even embark on a constructive dialogue here, so i’m off this thread

    live and let live i say

  19. @Sparky,
    The article is incomplete without any study of the history of AIDS. If HIV came from monkeys in Africa why in the world did it only start infecting humans AFTER the French and Belgians colonized various African nations? Humans have been around in Africa since the dawn of time, yet only in the 20th century do they start becoming infected on a mass scale. Coincidental? I don’t think so.Quit living in the bubble of your ignorance.
    You also seem to think that promiscuity is ok if both men and woman do it. Typical white illogic.

    @brownie
    You are white washed. You raised the issue of western “whores” and I’m answering. Only an idiot would insist that multiple sexual partners is healthy or moral comparing woman to cars. Human beings aren’t animals. Nor is it uncharitable to say that western woman and men are promiscuous and perverted. Many of these whores will give it up for a drink at the bar. Do your research and do some reading. Your permissive attitudes reflect the white washed mindset. There’s more to life then “live and let live.” Of course I DO NOT care who you sleep with, quit lecturing the rest of the world who to go about its business. And yes, its high time to expose whites, since they are trying to dominate the world with their inferior culture and militarism. Out of Middle East, Africa, South America…then we’ll have a “constructive dialogue.”
    Don’t raise the game and complain when you lose.

  20. “white illogic” You are a racist…but I don’t care!

    Doesn’t faze me one bit. I am not here to argue promiscuity nor the origin of AIDS as neither are the topic. People like you have nothing better to do than divert the topic because YOU ARE LOSERS and can’t not win when arguing the topic at hand!!!

    “Get a grip” Promiscuity…did your woman/wife cheat on you or what? Man get over it!

  21. @Sparky,
    Put a sock in it, junior. I was not the one who raised the issue of promiscuity and AIDS, you and brownie did. You could not hold a candle in a real debate, especially in regards to your history of terror and mass murder across the world. Quit dictating to the world who to go about its business. Typical white losers.
    You’re the racist simpleton who can’t stand the fact some of us aren’t superficial. Get over yourself and your lack of pigment.

  22. Ahh poor me and my lack of pigment…What shall I do? The real issue is that I am happy you are angry because a few months ago I read a posting and you were depressed which seems like you are moving up the emotional scale. I pray you one day reach empowerment like Saudi Jeans.

  25. There is an Arabic saying that goes like this:

    أسمع كلامك يعجبني، أشوف أفعالك أتعجّب

    I really like Biden’s talk, but I am not sure I will like his actions.

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