Homaidan Al Turki was sentenced yesterday to 27 years to life in prison in Colorado. The 37-year-old Saudi national, denied the charges and blamed anti-Muslim prejudice for the case against him. His lawyer said he would appeal the convictions, and argued that cultural differences were at the heart of the charges. To support Al Turki please visit this website.
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Saudi Jeans 
Thanks Ahmad
So? He was found guilty of that? Why do you support him?
I would like to ask the same question that Nuri asked. Assuming he a.) kept his maid under lock and key (which is illegal in the US, and should be illegal in KSA) and b.) raped her, then what “anti-Muslim” bised is he talking about? Is it Muslim to keep servants locked up and sexually abused?
Basically, I’d like to know what he’s talking about when he says he’s being persecuted for “BASIC MUSLIM BEHAVIORS” (his quote!)
Homaidan did not sexually abused his maid…it’s just an accusation from the maid
and this biased judgment against Muslims from the FAKE American law “as usual” will bring more and more shame for the FAKE American democracy
I woudl also like to add one more point:
FOrced imprisonment (preventing another human being from moving around with his or her own autonomy otuside of his or her job) is a VERY big no-no in the US. There are very strict laws on that, and they are very clear.
Look at it this way: Americans are freaked out by some of the strict laws that are metered in the Kingdom. Now you can see what it feels like to see how another culture deals with it’s own perceptions of the law. You can’t lock somebody in a house. You can’t withhold wages to keep them from leaving. People in the West consider that part of human trafficking. If it’s not such a big deal in the Kingdom to “buy” the desperation of Asians in the Third World and then harbor them in your villas and treat them like sub-standard humans that are below you — then I can see how you feel appalled at the punishment metered. I have to admit: as a Westerner, it kind of freaks me out that Saudis chop people’s heads off in public for smugging hash into the Kingdom. :)
Oops, my first post didn’t “post”.
I don’t want to re-write my reply to tutti. I’ll just point out that the maid was a Muslim, too. I will admit that I think the punishment was too strong, and probably based not on a Muslim bias but a Saudi one — people in the West are more than aware of the fact that Saudis depend heavily on paying very low wages to import economic slaves form the Third World. Please, don’t bring that to the US! We liberals have enough of a problem trying to convince the racist Republican conservatives that immigrants, all immigrants, are good for the country, and it doesn’t help to have Gulf Arabs bringing over their habits that are illegal in the US. (We all know Saudi Arabia was second only to Uganda in outlawing slavery IN THE EARLY 60s!!!)
While I think the punishment didn’t fit the crime. I don’t know if he raped the woman or not, but I’m fairly convinced that he’s guilty of: illegal imprisonment, conspiring to imprison, harboring and employing an undocumented migrant and paying less than minimum wage.
Personally, I don’t think people should be allowed to bring along their economic slaves to live in the US with them.
There are plenty of domestic laborers in the US who can do the job, even Muslim ones if you want to discriminate against the Mexicans or something.
What exactly do you want us to support when you say, “To support Al-Turki please visit this website”?
You’re not suggesting we should support a sadist and a rapist, are you?
I believe that cultural differences truly are at the heart of this mess.
It’s quite interesting to see this happen to someone, as just a few years ago growing up in the states, I saw that MOST arab diplomats had housekeepers, and most were handled the way the law would require them to BACK HOME.
Most of the “felonies” this man is convicted of, for example (save for the sexual assault allegations) are in fact NOT felonies in Saudi Arabia. Yes, in Saudi Arabia people do hold housekeeper’s passports. The nature of the low-wage laborers we receive in Saudi Arabia makes it imperative, else believe me when I say, THEY WILL work for illegetimate networks. That’s one thing. Another, the fact that he hadn’t paid her YET is also understandble. There is more than one way to pay a housekeeper according to the law HERE. Our housekeeper also does not get paid until her 2 year period is over. She had personally asked us this because if she did get it earlier, she would spend her money all here, when she’d rather spend it back home in Indonesia.
The fact that she was kept in the basement? Most maids are kept in attic-like rooms on the roof tops of villas here. While this may sound like poor treatment to an American, they never did complain because despite all this the housekeepers are making enough to finally feed not only their families, but their whole villages. And such accomodations are still better than what they are accustomed to, so they never really complain. Plus, they are usually treated ok by their hosts, especially if they’re Muslim. So they keep coming back to work. (the kidnap conviction was one i had to laugh at.. kid nap meen wal 7urmah jayyah brjoolha??)
What I believe is fabricated is the housekeeper’s allegations of sexual assault. The man has a wife. If he had some weird fetish for little kids, and raped a kid, then I’d understand because his wife wouldn’t be able to satisfy his fetish. But, to rape a woman when he had a wife right there.. it just seems all too weird. While I don’t deny that Saudis are notorious for raping Indonesian house maids, (and believe me when I say I HAVE EXPERIENCE IN THAT DEPARTEMNT, I have spoken to sooo many victims of rape here) somehow a middle-aged father of four does NOT fit the criteria. If she had claimed that it was their teenaged son, I would not only believe her but rally for her cause too. But the father? Let alone, a man with a job, school, family and on a scholarship too, it just seems sooo fabricated.
Another thing I’d like to point out, this woman now has 64 grand and is living with friends in the states…
I may be biased, because truly my heart goes out to that family, but isn’t it interesting to see how good she’s having it? No woman under circumstances that led her to work in Saudi Arabia would have ever dreamt of getting a chance to live in the U.S, much less have 64 grand US dollars in spending money.
In fact, and it does pain me to say this, even if she had won the lottery back home she wouldn’t have gotten that kind of money, ever.
This reminds me of a story. When I was growing up in the states and baba was a diplomat, we had a Philipina house keeper, who we not only treated well, but also gave weekends off and extra spending money in cash if she helped us/mama with our homework. (my mother was a college student at the time whose English was lacking somewhat).One day we got back from our respective work places/schools and could not find her. She had run away.
Six years later, she comes to visit us with an American on her arms, her husband. Not only did she threaten to sue (because of a silly spat she had with mama over a pearl necklace 8 years ago) but also kept spewing crap like “ana alheen ahsan minnik ya madam.. ana alheen amreekya, ana alheen agdar asowee muskil kateer hag mama”
(now I am better than my madam, now I am an american, now I can cause you lots of problems)
My mom’s reaction? a 200 dollar wedding gift from Macy’s the next day.
“Allah yester 3laina ya bnaity”
MORAL OF THE STORY:SAUDIS YOU NAIVE IDIOTS DO NOT TAKE UR MAIDS TO THE STATES!
SAUDI EMBASSY, AND SAUDI AUTHORITIES, PLEASE RAISE AWARENESS SO THAT CRAP LIKE THIS STOPS HAPPENING!
@farooha
I think you make some nice, balaced points:
>> What I believe is fabricated is the housekeeper’s allegations of sexual assault. . . have spoken to sooo many victims of rape here) somehow a middle-aged father of four does NOT fit the criteria. << I’m willing to accept this possibility. What I would like to see is the evidence, and I don’t think anyone in this conversation has that, so you can “believe” one way or the other, but without seeing the evidence presented in the court, it’s difficult to tell either way. I am also willing to concede that Al-Turki was subjected to a witch hunt on terrorism inquiries for selling a books store and doing dawa. That is unfortunate and shouldn’t have happened. (ALTHOUGH: When you are in the US on a graduate student visa, you’re not supposed to own bookstores or have other types of businesses.) What I have a problem with in your comment is this: >> There is more than one way to pay a housekeeper according to the law HERE. << Nothing you say about “how things are done in Saudi Arabia” applies. If I smuggle drugs into the Kingdom and get sentenced to public execution, I can’t say “boo-hoo, in the US I’d only get 10 years in prison (or whatever)”. I drink beer. When I am in the Kingdom I do not even try to find alcohol even though I could. And I could really use a beer sometimes. But I don’t do it. Why? Because I resepct the laws of the land as a guest in the country. I find it incredibly self-righteous to use the way Saudis deal with domestic staff in the Kingdom as ANY justification for the SERIOUS charges of imprisonment. Americans have a lot of faults, but one of them is not the utmost repect for personal freedom, whether its the personalf reedoms of domestic housemaids or Saudi Princes. For the most part, Americans don’t play that heirarchy game where servants are sub-humans “below” fat princes with their fancy sports cars and hypocritical lifestyles when they go to other places and drink and acquire prostitutes (it happnes). The law in the US is very clear on this, including: Domestics coming on on A-3 and G-5 (donestic help) visas must be paid at least minimum wage (like $7 and hour); you must pay taxes and social security on those wages; you must allow the servant two days off per week; the servnat must get overtime for more than eight hours worked; the servant must never be prevented from going where he or she wants to go when s/he’s not working (it’s called personal freedom); the sponsor cannot hold wages or passports as a way to coerce the servant. (What’s incredibly sad about this case is that the mais was gettign paid WAY less than what even illegal immigrant maids get in the US. Al-Turki was a greedy fuck, as far as I’m concerned payign that woman $150 a month, and then withholding the wages as part of his scheme to keep her from fleeing. If you paid these people better, much less treated them with the respect that equal human beings deserve, maybe they wouldn’t flee.) What Al-Turki did in this regard (whether he raped the woman or not) was a typical wasta-esque attitude of being above-the-law. And he got caught doing it. And the US deals with human trafficking and imprisonment stiffly. You said: >>> MORAL OF THE STORY:SAUDIS YOU NAIVE IDIOTS DO NOT TAKE UR MAIDS TO THE STATES!
SAUDI EMBASSY, AND SAUDI AUTHORITIES, PLEASE RAISE AWARENESS SO THAT CRAP LIKE THIS STOPS HAPPENING! <<< I couldn’t agree more. And I will add: If Saudis are planning on coming to the US and behaving as if they have the right to import a little chuink of the Kingdom with them and habits that are illegal, then don’t come to the States. If the Kingdom is the moral high ground in the treatment of domestics (it isn’t), then stay there. If you are willing to accept US cultre and laws, then WELCOME! Otherwise, don’t come at all.
The more I read into his case the more it pains me.. I just read she wasn’t getting 64 grand, but 92 grand…classy.
Anyway, Anon, you also make balanced points and I can’t tell you how glad I am that you weren’t quick to scold me for sympathizing with “a rapist and a sadist..” I really appreciate it. Let’s get to this now, shall we?
You say:
“..What I would like to see is the evidence..”
Which, I agree wholeheartedly with.. There is still no evidence AT ALL that he in fact had done this to the woman. And the enormous amounts of money+ opportunities this is giving the woman makes me wary. Still, this man will serve 27 years in prison, and possibly, a life sentence DESPITE the absence of this evidence. This is our point of dispute with the American judicial system. Nothing more, nothing less.
“.. When you are in the US on a graduate student visa, you’re not supposed to own bookstores or have other types of businesses..”
He did NOT own the Al-Basheer publishing company, nor did he run it, either. He worked there as a translator and a linguist. He was providing for a family, the money he gets from his scholarship is never enough, so perhaps he was there on a different visa? I know that many international students work part time for extra money. And even if it was a squabble over visa issues, to sentence him to 27 years, and possibly life, because of that is just too extreme.
Furthermore: “Nothing you say about “how things are done in Saudi Arabia” applies”
Which is why I am pleading with the Saudi Embassy to raise awarness or to at least let Saudis know what is considered right, and what is considered wrong. The reason I REALLY sympathize with this man and his family is we all were once guilty of this. Most of the Arab families (not only Saudis, and not only Gulf Arabs, Lebanese and Jordanians included) who lived abroad dealt with the maids the same way they would back home. This man isn’t a victim of his own ignorance, but his community’s at large. I know that now that shit has hit the fan, it’s wrong to say “oh, well, we saw everybody else doing it so we did too, it’s not our fault” so I can see where you come from with your argument, however, I, and I’m sure this goes for every other Saudi following the case, do not find the sentence appropriate AT ALL. Nothing justifies how harsh it is.
“.. And I could really use a beer sometimes. But I don’t do it. Why? Because I resepct the laws of the land as a guest in the country. “
With all due respect, spare me. If you do, many others don’t. The mutties might give you a hard time every once in a while (and they do that to the locals to so..!) just about EVERYONE knows that an american can NEVER, EVER get in serious trouble with the law in Saudi Arabia. Booze, or not, the govenment protects them even more than their own citizens, and they TRULY ARE above the law, so don’t you lecture me about sacrificing a cup of beer like it’s the end of the world when we all know you can go to the club house in your compound and simply ask for it, ok?
Moving along
“..For the most part, Americans don’t play that heirarchy game where servants are sub-humans “below” fat princes with their fancy sports cars and hypocritical lifestyles when they go to other places and drink and acquire prostitutes (it happnes).”
A) I know what happens, it happens right under my nose and newsflash we, the people, are NOT as ignorant as many may think, so, PLEASE spare me the “fat princes” conspiracy.
What a good man in Colorado has anything to do with this, and how this is even relevent, I have no idea. But let’s just let the fat prince crap slide.
B) Don’t give me that holier than thou american talk, don’t tell me what America does or doesn’t do. You act as though many of the world’s wars weren’t started or caused by THE GOVERNMENT of America (notice I did NOT say Americans) You act as though illegal laborors aren’t smuggled day in day out, you act as though children from other countries (such as MEXICO) aren’t ensalved and exploited by corporate america (just because it doesn’t happen on American soil, doesn’t mean there isn’t a greedy American behind it and… Im fairly certain that it happens on American soil too but mostly a blind eye is turned) So, I beg of you to spare me the preaching. Please, don’t you attempt to conivnce me that America is creating this whole hullabaloo for the sole reason of their concern for the poor poor indonesian maid.. OH PLEASEEE!!!
What hurts me the most is not the amount of money this women makes (that feeds her whole village + she came to this job WILLINGLY, ps, so enough drama). Our maid here at home, for example, gets paid 800 SR (about $200) and she now owns and runs a whole restaurant back home.. It’s interesting to see people constantly lecturing us for our treatment of maids (yes they do so rightfully at times, I concede) but for this to come from the greediest of greedy is just downright hypocrisy!Let’s see you do something about your “greedy fucks” back home? Let’s see ANYTHING done to them, in fact, by outer parties, no less. It just doesn’t make sense.
You know what makes me feel sad, though? The fact that this man could have just spared himself this by getting a part time Mexican maid in the states, just like the Americans (if he absolutely had to have a maid). But I know that the man and his wife were probably thinking “No, I’d rather help a muslim sister in need”… sometimes our religious naivete pains me I SWEAR.
What also pains me is dragging his wife into this in such a demeaning manner. It doesn’t pain me because it is unfair alone, it pains me because I know women like her, they are my relatives and cousins,and I know that due to her modesty all she was probably thinking as they dragged her around with no hijab even, was “I hope no man sees me uncovered like this” Ah, but alas her pictures are splashed everywhere online with headlines such as “ONE BIG JOLLY WAHHABI FAMILY” and “Slavery, in the US? Thanks, Islam!” and whatnot.
BLEGH.. I’m just tired of this. NO EDUCATION is worth ANY of this…
Hi Farooha,
Nice to see you writing again.
No offense, but “helping a muslim sister in need” doesn’t sound quite consistent with paying her a fraction of what even a illegal Mexican live-in maid would have to be paid, taking her passport, and locking her in the basement of your house.
This is not a case of anti-Muslim prejudice – about ten years ago, a Hindu Indian restaurant owner in Berkeley was importing young women and holding them under similar conditions, and he got an equally long sentence. I assure you that any native-born American who tried something like this would be treated equally harshly.
We fought a long and bloody war to eliminate slavery in the United States – we’re kind of touchy about efforts to re-import it into the US.
OK
“…paying her a fraction of what even a illegal Mexican live-in maid would have to be paid, taking her passport, and locking her in the basement of your house”
5 words, it was in the contract. The pay, the right to take her passport, everything. Yes it sounds cruel, yes it sounds harsh.. it still is a paying job to this woman, who went with her own two feet to a house-keeping agency LOOKING, no, HOPING for a job in Saudi Arabia, and to her employer. SO SAVE the sympathy. Also, most maids not only come back but RENEW their contracts with the same employers after the initial two year-period is over (as is the case with this one).
Ps: She wasn’t “locked up” there, she stayed there. Her ROOM was there. Our maid stays in a room on our rooftop, which yet again MAY SOUND harsh to you, but is NOT, it’s private and quiet up there and she quite likes it.
@farooha:
>>> There is still no evidence AT ALL that he in fact had done this to the woman. <<< If you’re going to make that claim, prove it. Provide a link to your source that says there was no evidence. As I said before, nobody here attended the trial, so you cannot make these claims any more than I can make the claim that I know personally there was overwhelming evidence against the defendant. So, please: you make these claims, provide some evidence on your behalf. Otherwise, it’s just a dogmatic statement. Dogma is defined as a statement that can neither be proved or disproved – making statement of personal belief as fact without evidence is a common rhetorical tool, and it’s not helpful for constructive debate. As I already said: I am more than willing to question both the sexual abuse allegations and the sentence. (In fact, between me and you, I’m the one willing to question what I know about the case. You’re attitude seems to be that you know it all.) But the visa violations and the violation of US labor laws cannot be disputed. You can say “oh, but it happens in the US, you hypocrite”, but I never said it doesn’t happen and saying it happens doesn’t excuse somebody who gets caught doing it. I agree with kpom’s comment in this regard. The state has every right to fight this illegal & exploitative practice and to punish those that do it. >> He did NOT own the Al-Basheer publishing company, nor did he run it, either. He worked there as a translator and a linguist. << The Denver Post and others have said he did own it (the bookstore was founded in the late 90s). Perhaps you’re right. I don’t know for sure. Just like you, I can only glean the “facts” from the press. >>> He was providing for a family, the money he gets from his scholarship is never enough, so perhaps he was there on a different visa? <<< There are specific laws about working on a student visa. By the way, who takes 12 years (and counting) to earn a PhD??? >>> And even if it was a squabble over visa issues, to sentence him to 27 years, and possibly life, because of that is just too extreme. <<< I agree. >>> Which is why I am pleading with the Saudi Embassy to raise awarness or to at least let Saudis know what is considered right, and what is considered wrong. <<< Absolutely. >>>> Booze, or not, the govenment protects them even more than their own citizens, and they TRULY ARE above the law, so don’t you lecture me about sacrificing a cup of beer like it’s the end of the world when we all know you can go to the club house in your compound and simply ask for it, ok? <<< Ad hominem attacks are another rhetorical tool for ruining constructive debate. For the record: I don’t live in a compound and I don’t hang out with “compound people.” I live in an apartment with Arab and expatriate neighbors. I abide by the laws of the land and I respect the culture. I didn’t come here to hang out with old, drunk Westerners. That’s the problem with attacking another commenter – you don’t know who I am and making assumptions just makes you look bad. >> Don’t give me that holier than thou american talk, don’t tell me what America does or doesn’t do. You act as though many of the world’s wars weren’t started or caused by THE GOVERNMENT of America (notice I did NOT say Americans) You act as though illegal laborors aren’t smuggled day in day out, you act as though children from other countries (such as MEXICO) aren’t ensalved and exploited by corporate America. <<< Again, don’t attack me. You know neither me nor my politics. I know Mexican migrants and I understand the exploitative excess of corporate Republican politics. I have extensive knowledge of the Mexican Issue (three out of four Latin immigrants come form Mexico). What I do know, is that many Mexican migrants come, integrate, and their children become politically active citizens – something migrant workers in Saudi Arabia are denied. (Actually, Saudis are also banned from political activity unless it’s the type that affirms the monarchy and it’s stance as owners of the country, but that’s another topic.) In fact, I know several Mexican laborers in the US. They have invited me into their homes to celebrate their holidays. I have visited them on the other side of the border and have seen the equity they send home (because even “illegals” get paid WAY MORE than $2 a day, which is what this maid was being paid – which is LOWER THAN MEXICO’S MINIMUM WAGE!) You cannot compare importing an Indonesian maid on a domestic-servant visa to the Mexican Experience in the US. \Better comparisons are Chinese economic slaves, or Filipinos on the Northern Marianas Islands (a US territory). By the way: All thos talk about the money she got? She earned it. That was money OWED TO HER based on the calculation of the time she worked earning the US minimum wage. You make it sound like she wasn’t entitled to this money or something. >>> Our maid here at home, for example, gets paid 800 SR (about $200) and she now owns and runs a whole restaurant back home.. It’s interesting to see people constantly lecturing us for our treatment of maids (yes they do so rightfully at times, I concede) but for this to come from the greediest of greedy is just downright hypocrisy! Let’s see you do something about your “greedy fucks” back home? <<< Indeed, “they” do “rightfully at times” lecture Saudis on their treatment of domestic staff. One thing you should understand is that the placement agencies in Asia and middlemen in Saudi Arabia often engage in deceit when it comes to recruiting domestic staff. They lie about how much they will earn, and they charge them for the “privilege” of coming to Saudi Arabia, which turns them into indebted servants. As I said before, you know neither me nor my politics. But let me re-iterate something: We are talking about US labor law. “Doing something” about the “greed” is actively opposing the importation of economic slaves into the US. The greed of the US, that’s completely another subject. (The rhetorical tool you are using here is “red herring”. We can have another debate about the greed of the US. And, for the record, I rescind my comment about “fat princes”. That was uncalled for and I apologize. With that said, tossing a comment about greed … OK< I have to say: you don’t like the US, then Saudi Arabia should slap another embargo on the country, like King Faisal did. Talk about greed! The Saudi state isn’t willing to make the sacrifice needed to curb US oil consumption and stem its hegemonic foreign policy. You know as well as I do that Saudi Arabia’s economy would falter if the US (and the West at large) wasn’t pouring petro-dollars to prop up your economy through its greedy (very greedy) consumption of your most valuable resource. You want to hit the US, then stop selling oil to the country. You brought it up (US hypocrisy and greed, etc.). I would support an embargo on the US. I think it’s utilizing too much of the world’s resources and diverting it’s prosperity into hegemonic foreign policy. (I am an environmentalist, and anything that increases the price of gas in the US I would support, to encourage Americans to stop consuming so much. If I would support a US oil embargo or some kind of huge gas tax or whatever, something that would hurt my own family members, do you?? Of course not! Because the Saudis depend greatly on Western oil consumption. But this too is another topic of debate. >> 5 words, it was in the contract. << A contract that is illegal in the US, and, as I mentioned above, is often misleading in its terms. >>> She wasn’t “locked up” there, she stayed there. <<< You should look at the laws in the US regarding bringing in people on domestic servant visas. Among them: 1.) It is illegal to hold their passport;
2.) They are required to have 2 days off a week;
3.) Employers cannot restrict their movement. If they want to leave the house, they can. It clearly states that any strategies employed to coerce them not to seek free movement (holding passports, withholding wages in escow, keeping them in ignorance of their rights, etc.) is illegal and dealt with stiffly;
4.) Employers must pay minimum wages;
5.) Employers must pay social security and taxes on these wages and document them;
6.) Employers must maintain the legal status of these workers;
7.) Ignorance of these law (which is clearly defined on US Embassy websites) is not a legal defense.
And for the record:
I do not oppose the practice of dawa or the bookstore. Al-Turki or anyone else are free to promote Islamic values in the US.
If you read all the evidence concerning this case very carefully you will see that this man is guilty of what he is accused of. Two other women also accused him of sexual assault. Members of his own Muslim community in US have commented on his truly bad character on the internet, of their own free will, saying that he was not the religious man that he professed to be in court.
For the person above who questioned and seemed quite baffled about why a middle aged man who had a wife would resort to raping the maid, Are you being serious?
1. 37 years old is not middle aged and
most men of this age are considered
to be in their prime sexually.
2. Having a wife does not stop such men
from seeking sex elsewhere as any
intelligent person knows. The
clients of prostitutes are mostly
married men. Many Saudis use their
maids and think it is their right to
do so.
3. My own Saudi father was a man such
as this and the same age too, who
although he had a very
beautiful wife, he thought that it
was his right to rape every maid
that came to our house. They all ran
away. He used his brain though, he
only did it in KSA
where it is often considered to be
part of the maids work load to be raped.
My disgusting father denied it also even though he was observed, there was plenty of evidence and he didn’t even cover his tracks very well, because no need to in KSA.
Can you imagine if an Indonesian man (who would most likely be a poor worker)
was found guilty of raping a Saudi woman?
What do you think would be the fate of that Indonesian man? Would he be pardoned from being executed?
Saudis consider themselves to be superior and arrogantly do as they please and use their wasta if they have it in KSA. The US has their laws that are to be followed by all including Saudis and wasta is not recognised in the US. The crime of multiple rape and depriving a person of their freedom for 4 years deserves punishment.
Why is so much energy being diverted to this worthless person, when there are much worthier causes needing attention.
Anonymous I think it was very smart of you to stay anonymous or you would have gotten a flood of nasty comments on your blog.
Anon Well said in this discussion.
>>> He was providing for a family, the money he gets from his scholarship is never enough, so perhaps he was there on a different visa? <<< If I am not mistaken, you must provide proof of sufficient financial support for the duration of your stay, at least the first year. International students can sign up for the Optional Practical Training (OPT). >>During OPT, students maintain F-1 visa status since it is considered to be part of a program of study. Immigration approval is required prior to starting work, which can take up to four months. The maximum amount of time granted to work in F-1 practical training status in twelve months after graduation.<< As far as the contract for the maid, it is not valid in the US. Just because it’s considered great pay by Indonesian standards, it does not justify to compensate her well below the minimum wage as required by our labor laws. I do agree that the punishment (27-year to life) may not fit the crime. One point though, this is a court trial based on presentation of evidence, not assumptions. Yes, to those who wish to come here, please get yourself educated about basic US laws and the enforcement of such. What’s a norm in your country, may be considered as a serious crime in ours and vice versa.
I love anonymous. Let’s start a anonymous fan club.
ANONYMOUS ANONYMOuS ANONYMOUS
Homeidan is said to have overtsyed his visa. Following “his” laws, without a valid “Iqama”, he should have been incarcerated pending deportation and his “Kafeel” should have been asked to pay for his travel costs.
Farooha + tutti frutti
This woman was brought with Al Turki from Saudi Arabia. In USA, when she wasn’t working, according to afidavit, she was kept in unheated basement, slept on mattress on concrete floor and was repeatedly raped by Al turki.
The woman was paid less than $2, her passport and visa was withheld from her by Al Turki and his wife.
The Arapahoe County District court convicted him of 12 felony countrs of unlawful sexual contact with use of force, one felony count of criminal extortion and one felony count of theft. He also was found guilty of two misdemeanors: false imprisonment and conspiracy to commit false imprisonment.
I do not think that your maid have been kept in unheated basement, Farooha. Furthermore, there are way of checking the maid story. If she has been raped there are specialized tests for that, even if the amount of the semen is negligible, same thing with assaulting her
There are many rape accusations coming to police and some of them are false but usually the modern methods can check the truth of the accusations quite well.
And by the way, illegals are are paid more than $2 an hour, believe me I also have some friends who were working illegally in america.
I’d like to clarify one thing about the evidence of sexual abuse. Those “tests” often have to be done fairly soon after the rape occurs.
As I said before, it’s very likely in my mind that the woman’s affidavit alone is the basis of the evidence in the sexual assault charges — and it’s entirely plausible that the woman’s testimony is made to make her slavemaster look as bad as possible so she can get away from that miserable situation.
Again, I don’t know what evidence was supplied for the forced sex abuse charges — and neither do any of you know-it-alls that have offered nothing but statements of belief as your only evidence (if it’s true in your know-it-all brains it must be fact, right?)
It may come to light that the woman’s sex abuse chagres are false, but AGAIN: I want to know what evidence was submitted to the court. (And since some of you seem to know it all — by all means enlighten my ass!)
But the evidence of visa violations, theft, and coersion charges are solid.
This has been said plenty of times, it should be said again: keep your indentured servants out of the US.
Here’s anothing thing to consider:
I suspect (though i can’t know for sure since I don’t know you) that the Saudi ladies here have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo in your country (of depending HIGHLY on foreign domestic staff).
Why? For one thing: few Saudis would ever “condescend” to such manual labor. (Hence even your streets are cleaned and your Starbucks coffee is served by non-Saudis, not to mention the prominence of non-Saudis in your skilled labor force.)
The othr reason: because your culture says that your role as women is to be the “domestic” — well, gee, if you can’t afford a maid and a driver, maybe you wouldn’t be so “comfortable” in the prohibitons on driving and the discrimination on working and the expectations that you , as woman, are expected to do the laundry, make the babies, and prepare the meals and stay out of “man business” like testifying as equals in a court of law, or running a business, or even being a slaes clerk in a women’s clothing store (OK that last one is being reformed, FINALLY! But let’s see how many Saudi woman actually stoop to such menial labor!)
As far as I’m concerned, listening to a Saudi woman talk about the treatment and wages of domestic servants is like listening to some southern plantation slavemaster talk abotu how well he treats his property and his “sub-humans.” You have no credibility because you depend greatly on cheap Third World labor so you don’t have to do all the work expected of you as a woman by your culture.
Imagine not having a driver or a maid.
Perish the thought!
Well, when you come to the US (or Europe, or Britain, or Canada, or anywhere else with such labor laws) you bette rplan to pay your servants better than $2 a day, kapish?
I’ve very much enjoyed reading the back-and-forth of the Farooha-Anonymous dialogue.
Factually, Anonymous is correct (though I certainly don’t share his/her political viewpoint).
Saudis intending to bring domestic servants to the US are explicitly informed that they must follow US laws, as Anonymous pointed out. US laws and Saudi laws on the matter are very, very different, which is why American Consular Officers explain, in detail, the differences and that US laws pertain in the US. Al-Turki may claim ignorance of this fact, but he was told, directly, what the legal situation was, before he left Saudi Arabia.
I know, too, that this information has been published in Saudi newspapers–both English and Arabic–because I’ve written press releases and seen them printed.
As Anonymous points out, whatever contract Al-Turki had with his servant for work in the KSA doesn’t matter once he brings her to the US. US laws are the only ones that count in the US, just as only Saudi laws count in the KSA.
Americans do end up in jail in the KSA, for alcohol and other violations of Saudi law. The only place where Americans get truly “preferential treatment” is when it comes to death penalty cases. The Saudi gov’t is not eager to execute an American (or other Westerner), a reticence not shown to all other nationalities. (Viz the Iraqi executed for drug offenses earlier this week.)
I know, too, of a 16-y/o American girl who spent two weeks in a Saudi jail because she was found in the company of a young male Saudi. The girl had been in the KSA only a matter of days when she went on a trip to Dammam with her brother and a Saudi colleague. Her brother got tired of shopping and went home, leaving the girl without a legal mahram. The Commission found them and took them both away. King Fahd had to personally intervene to get her released.
This kind of intervention is not generally available under the US legal system (though certain officials can issue pardons, post-conviction).
I do agree with Farooha that the conviction on rape charges looks peculiar. But “peculiar” doesn’t necessarily mean “wrong”. There was a trial and none of us, at present, knows exactly what was said or exhibited at the trial.
I will try to find a transcript of the trial, though I’m not sure that one’s available on the Internet. I do know that transcripts can be purchased (for a considerable sum, which I don’t have in my pocket). Perhaps a collection could be undertaken by those concerned about the fairness of the trial.
In any event, Al-Turki’s case is being appealed to a higher court. Assuming he has good lawyers, perhaps he can convince that court that reversible errors were made. If he can do that, the verdict could be overturned, he could be given a new trial, he could have the penalties imposed upon him reduced or dropped.
I do suggest that this–as many other points of contention about US-Saudi relations–be handled rationally, dealing with facts as we know them, not as we suspect them.
Stereotyping America and the American judicial system is no more valid than stereotyping Saudis and the Saudi legal system.
BTW, I’m also addressing this on my non-anonymous blog, Crossroads Arabia.
Hi John,
I’m glad we disagree politically because I don’t think this is one of these divisive issues among Americans. I think most Americans agree that $2 a day wage slaves whose posspots are held and who are coerced into thinking terrible things will happen if they flee is not something anyone in the US welcomes (except for the greedy sleazebags that do this).
Anyway, this is pretty cut and dry and I don’t think anyone can rationally oppose efforts to enforce this issue when it comes to G-5 and A-3 visas. (Are there others? Because these are suppose dot only be used by gov’t officials and family thereof, and ostensibly Al-Turki is neither).
And I’m glad that most of us seem to agree that the sentence appears to be quite harsh assuming the woman wasn’t being sexually abused. (If she was sexually abused, they should lock him up for at least 27 years — he would be beheaded in Saudi Arabia if he weren’t “politically connected” for doing such a crime, I might point out.)
Anyway, now we have another case of a Saudi princess who pleaded guilty to labor and visa violations. I supposed some of you think her admission of guilt is part of some vast anti-Muslim conspiracy, right?
????? Argh, this pisses me off even more because as a member of royalty (which means she gets Saudi government money welfare checks like all royal members do) this princess clearly could afford to may these women a fair wage!!!!! I hope that greedy bitch serves the time and gets schooled by some prison sistahs.
I’m not proud of a lot my country is doing right now, but I’ve also been taken aback by how reflexive many Saudis can be, and how they don’t seem to take self-criticism very seriously.
I have Muslim friends in the USA and they don’t feel threatened. If anything, it’s STILL more dangerous to be black in a rural Mississippi white town than to be Muslim in America.
YES, there has been a witch hunt of some Muslims in the US. I do not condone it at all! The prisoners of Guantanamo must be freed and should have gone to trial years ago! And I am utterly ashamed and disgusted by this.
But considering how many Saudis continue to go to the USA, I don’t think you guy truly believe that you’re being hunted down when you go live in the US. If anything, it seems the gripe is that the US has made it harder for Saudis to go to the US. (I’m not sure that’s true, but that seems to be the common perception, and I don’t know because I’m not a Saudi.)
Anyway, as usual, food for thought.
Some of the gripes are legitimate, others are based only on inconvenience.
I know that the increased vetting of visa applicants, post-9/11, really did screw up a lot of people’s lives. I know of one case, in fact, where a very ill man was not able to get a visa in a timely manner and died. (Whether the American hospital to which he was going could actually have saved his life will forever remain unknown.)
Thousands of Saudi students, studying in the US, were unable to get their visas processed in time to return to classes. Some just dropped out; some transferred to other-than-American universities; some contacted the schools and worked things out, though it meant their degree completion was delayed by at least a year.
For a variety of security reasons–coupled with some tit-for-tat diplomacy–Saudis can obtain visas only at the US Embassy in Riyadh: the Consulates in Jeddah and Dhahran no longer process them. That’s certainly inconvenient as well as expensive for people who must travel to one city, and one city alone, to apply for a visa.
There are myriad things in life about which to be upset. Some are more important than others. Before getting upset about any of them, however, it’s generally useful to find out as much as you can about it, not just from the side that you deem “correct”, but also from the ones you think wrong.
You don’t have to accept the reasoning of the “wrong thinkers”, but you have to understand that they think what they do for a reason. And they believe just as fervently in their “wrong” ideas as you or I do in our “right” ideas.
To simply call them names, categorize them by the lowest common denominator, or dismiss them as “fanatics” neither help understanding of the real issues nor help solve them.
Something too few people do is to ask themselves, “What if I’m wrong about this?” It’s always a good question to ask, even if we don’t like the answer.
Why would you automatically support him? In Islam, enslavement and rape of “infidels” is justified, so it isn’t like what he did was against his beliefs.
He is from a society where women are essentially slaves, and where rape requires 4 male muslim witnesses for conviction. In the civilized world, we would call those 4 “accomplices”,BTW.
How could any muslim not belive the charges to be very possible? And how deep in denial must you be to call the US system of justice discriminatory, when justice in Saudi Arabia makes no attempt to even pretend to be fair.
Oh, that’s right. The Muslim ego. You are perfect, you are superior, everyone else is less than human. Hitler thought the same thing about non-aryans.
To be blunt, this is another case of a Saudi acting like a savage in the civilized world and being held accountable for it. I couldn’t care less how it’s done in Saudi Arabia. In America, you can not hold anyone against their will, threaten them, and rape them. This law applies to Saudi Neanderthals just like everyone else.
The idea that Colorado locked this slave-holding rapist up just because he was a Muslim is a sick joke by bigoted Muslims. Back in the sick state of the KSA, people are locked up on the whim of the government. Naturally, out of ignorance and bigotry you think that’s the way the rest of the world works. It doesn’t. You have to present evidence of the crime that a judge will allow and a jury will believe. That evidence is what got this Saudi criminal justly convicted.
And it’s not like this is some anomalous event. There is a constant dribble of Saudis caught abusing their maids in America. I see news of one in the paper at least every six months. If I looked harder, I’ll bet I could find a lot more local stories of it that don’t make the national news.
What this amounts to is more evidence that Saudis find it difficult to live in the modern world where people, like non-Muslims, have rights they must respect and where Muslims have no higher standing than any other person.
To anon, I just like to tell you there were many incidents in the kingdom of westerner, who broke Saudi law, yet the did get preferential treatment, a few come to mind, the two Brits, who were convicted of manufacturing and distributing alcohol, the British nurse who was convicted of murdering her British roommate, and was eventually pardoned by the king.
Ok, back to the case, for the life of me I don’t know why in the world do Saudi students, or anyone who are planning to live, or study in the west take their maid with them. It’s just insane, especially nowadays with prosecutors, and the FBI ready to jump at any indiscretion of a bearded Saudi student, and his veiled wife. When I was living and studying in the states, I had no problem arranging for a Hispanic cleaning lady to come to my house on a part time basis. Recently another Saudi female graduate student who brought two maids with her was convicted of filling false information when filling the needed paper for the maid; she was sentenced to one year in jail. I think in Mr. Al-turki’s case the maid was coerced into these allegations; she saw an opportunity and ran with it. Its outrageous for this man, to get 28 years in prison, while in the US you get 20 years for first degree murder, and you would probably go out on parole in 12 years, or less.
Granted some families in Saudi Arabia treat their maid in a harsh, and inhumane way but not all due. A lot of maids are treated extremely well, they are treated like member of the family, they are taken to on family vacations to London, and France, they would be taken to five stars restaurants, at least this how my family treat the maids working for us. Still while vacationing in London, we had 2 philipina maids run away, and its not because we mistreat them, its because they saw an opportunity and they took it, they know they will never would have gotten a visa to enter the UK on their own, and this is their only chance, they called my mom afterward, and apologized.
Once again like Farah said, for those who are planning to live, for and extended period of time in the States there is no need to take their maid with them, it just amazes me why people insist on doing this, knowing that all eyes are on them, and knowing that their maids can make up anything and the prosecutor are more than willing to prosecute.
P.S. tantor, in America you held millions of slaves against their will, just remember America was built on the tears, and sweat of slaves. So spare us the indignation speech, you live in a country that is racist to the core, while black are a minority in the States, they constitute the overwhelming majority in jails. You live in a country that is the richest in the world, yet you couldn’t take care of your own when Katarina hit, now why was is that, because the majority of the people affected were poor, and black.
Anon, We grew out of slavery 150 years ago.
Regarding Katrina, it was an incompetent BLACK mayor who let down the people of New Orleans, and an incompetent, black-loving Govorner who aided in the incompetence.
Let me correct you there confused KKK member, I think it was an incompetent white FEMA director, who was appointed by a white incompetent president.
From the original “anonymous”
This is off topic, but…
Mr. Smarter said:
“Regarding Katrina, it was an incompetent BLACK mayor who let down the people of New Orleans, and an incompetent, black-loving Govorner who aided in the incompetence.”
My repsonse:
Hopefully you all understand that Mr. Smarter is declaring a typical right-winger American’s view. Regardless of the citys mayor’s level of incompetence, it is a federal responsibility under FEMA to deal with these kind of natural disasters, and if Mr. Smarter was indeed “smart” he would learn what FEMA did in response to the previous Florida hurricane that occured in a state whose governor is the blood brother of the president (regardless of the mocal officials’ actions) and compare that to FEMA’s repsonse to a hurricane in a “backwater” predominantly Democratic region of South Louisiana.
And when Mr. Smarter takes the time to compare the two responses, he will see how much of right-wing blowhard he truly is.
Comments on this post has gone far off-topic, so I’m going to close down comments here. Sorry.
Nothing fake about it. If a Muslim does not wish to follow or believe in American laws. Then he damn well should never of came to the US. That goes for any and all Muslims who scoff at our laws. The tables are not turned for an American in the Middle East.
…quote Tutti Fruitti
https://saudijeans.org/2006/09/01/homaidan-al-turki-was-sentenced-yesterday-to-27-ye/#comment-2243
I hope he is innocent, however from my work experience in Saudi, the general way there is to treat foreigners, even if they are muslims, as mere slaves.The Saudi government’s system is based on enslaving foreigners, local nationals are encouraged and supported by their government to treat foreigners as slaves, this goes for everybody who isn’t Saudi.Just ask thousands from all over the world who worked there.
Controlling an employees passport, paying them less than agreed or at unpredictable dates, keeping them locked up in their houses, making them work without breaks, without vacations, etc….these are all working conditions that perhaps thousands of maids and other kinds of domestic help endure while working in Saudi Arabia….it’s refreshing to see how that kind of treatment is seen in the rest of the developed world. Saudi only stopped slavery in the 1960s. You have at least a couple of generations of Saudis who were raised to think of these workers as less human as them. And boy…it shows..the stories of ill treatment of maids are so common in Saudi. Some maids take out their revenge by lacing food with urine, blood, or poison….others are so emotionally wrecked that they jump out the windows of the villa that they are locked up in.
That doesn’t even mention all the cases of rape. We can’t even begin to make a reasonable guess as to how common sexual abuse is against foreign workers. A maid escapes from her boss…she’s trying not to get raped…she goes to the police…maybe they rape her….they take her back to her boss….he rapes her….she escapes again….she meets somebody who says they’ll help her….they rape her…and they invite their friends over to rape her as well. There are some serious social ills that go very deeply in Saudi Arabia. And it is very difficult for people here to face just how messed up the society is. There are alot of good people also…and I daily do my part to encourage the good and shine a light in the darkness.
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