Gaza Children Wednesday, January 14, 2009 by Ahmed … don’t deserve to die. Video by Raed al-Saeed. Related
70 thoughts on “Gaza Children”
I think we all agree that children doesn’t deserve to die but this mean that ALL children….they all deserve to like happy, free from the dear but why you don’t apply this also to the chlidren of Israel that live in the town that daily are been bombed for EIGHT years, they live in fear that the next rocket could hit them, tell to the children that had died in terrorist act while going to school, eating in a resturant…they deserve to live, why Hamas want the death of Jews kid….a couple of days ago a raging mad from Hamas said that ALL jews children must be killed. Why nobody in arab worl said a world when children are shown on tv wearing a kamikaze uniform or stating that they want to grown up a being a terrorist, why on arab tv is thaught hate for jews…this is also robbing a childhoon of his innocence
countrygirl: and under what context did the hamas member say that? i’ll quote his words: ‘ by killing the children of gaza, you legitimate the killing of your children’.
and i agree, children regardless of their religion should not be killed. but who started this war to begin with? who misplaced people from their lands, put them into refugee camps, and starved them, blocking all aid…?!
I am surprised to see you commenting on the outside world. I always enjoyed your writing becuase it gave me perspective from the inside of SA, I am alittle disapointed to see you taking sides.
This the result of the terrorist Israeli war machine . They have been killing Palestinian since 1948 till now . This is not something new , almost all Arabs know . Westerners should know the fact that Israel is occupying our holy land , Palestine , Palestinian are resisting to get their land . The Israeli war machine only kills innocent civilians at their homes . Not even one militant is there.
I we live in two different planet….i see Hamas that teach their kids hate, that it’s a beautiful thing to kill himself/herself by beeing a kamikaze, so far i’ve never saw in this blog a word against Hamas and its hateful teaching and no word against the hateful teaching against Jews that too often is taught on arab tv or you agree with them that Hitler was right or do you think that he’s an Hero?
In a previous post Mirco said everything about history….in 1948 there was the possibilities of two states but the arabs refused….Israel isn’t your holy land, there weren’t a state Palestine…before there was Turks, then the english…
I agree with Foster I like this blog because it gives me an insight of SA…but lately some poster are a little too narrow minded….
Just tell me why Palestinian didn’t use the tons of money they receivein for the people? Why so far i’ve never saw a word of condemmation for the photo of children dressed up as kamikaze, why nobody said a word against the videos where kids around 5 are shown in some kind of paramilitar camp where Hamas teach that is right to hate Jews? or you all agree with Hamas? do you agree with Hamas that is right to wipe out Israel?
“Just tell me why Palestinian didn’t use the tons of money they receivein for the people?”
money? where from? the *brave* Israeli govt has been blocking all aid into gaza!
“Why so far i’ve never saw a word of condemmation for the photo of children dressed up as kamikaze, why nobody said a word against the videos where kids around 5 are shown in some kind of paramilitar camp where Hamas teach that is right to hate Jews? or you all agree with Hamas? do you agree with Hamas that is right to wipe out Israel?”
what do you teach your kids about people who invade your lands, kick you out of your homes, put you into overpopulated refugee camps, blobk water, gas, medicine, and other aid supplies?
and just to clarify, i dont think it’s right to put all jews under one term. there are good and bad people from every religion.
J. Foster, you are right, I usually don’t comment on issues outside Saudi Arabia. But in this war, it was easy to take sides.
Imagine yourself living in the same circumstances Hamas lived in. No matter how open minded you are, you could never escape the resentment that would grow in your heart every passing day knowing that someone stole your land, and is treating you like you don’t deserve to live, like that land never belonged to you in the first place. would you be open minded enough not to take sides if you were there?
If the Israelis are suffering that much, then they should abandon the land that was never theirs to begin with, and everything would be fine.
please, lets not act like its all Hamas’s fault. If there’s anything I’m against, then it’s teaching children that all Jews are bad. matters of good and evil should not be decided based on religion. But let me ask you this, aren’t the west looking at all Muslims as terrorists?
people shouldn’t judge someone until they live in the same circumstances they endured. I used to blame Hamas, but now that I think about it, If I were in their place, I might have probably done the same
muslimah FYI Israel didn’t cut gas, water, food….but i reckon i can’t have a civil conversation with you since all you can say is the usual propaganda…by the way you didn’t answer my question….
i could say till my last day but it seems that some of you could never understan…..Israel never stole the land they live….
A long time ago I used to be indeed biased; however, now and believe me I am doing my best to be objective and look at things unbiasedly. It is so hard to do that as long as we are human beings and have hearts. Yet, there are basic and basic rights of humanity on which all humans would agree. Killing innocent children is undoubtedly strips away one of these basic rights.
And yeah I have never heard that taking sides or having an opinion is not considered to be open mindedness. I have to mention that taking sides or even beliefs should be based on objective factors, as much as one can be, though.
country girl: Israel DID block all the aid besides not allowing journalists to enter through. you’ve got to be living in a cave not to know that.
“money? where from? the *brave* Israeli govt has been blocking all aid into gaza! ”
This is a simple lie, easily refuted:
but ” Hamas stealing aid supplies to sell to residents”
Arab readership is very naive and unquestioning. When Arabs read reports about the most heinous crimes attributed to Israel, they never pause to ask themselves whether these are true, verifiable and can be independently validated from different sources. A little scepticism about what your media and your leaders feed you would go a long way in preparing the atmosphere for peace. But I suspect this is inconvenient and unpopular. It is so much easier to go along with the flow, follow the mob, right?
Never forget that you are 300 million Arabs, in possesstion of 99.9% of the region known as the Middle East, including all of the oil. Israel, by comparison is tiny, Jewish, with no resources except for the contents of its people’s minds and talents, living on 0.01% of the M-E territory.
These statistics alone make you reluctant to relinquish any stereotypical thinking instilled in you. It is usually the dynamics between a vast majority and a tiny minority, that the majority creates its myths and reality about the minority, and justify just about every type of violence inflicted upon it as well-deserved.
The Palestinians are Arab and mostly Muslims. They have your hundreds of millions supporting them and their terrorism against a country that was willing to do anything, short of suicide, to make peace with them.
What have done lately for Palestinians, except keep them in their misery and egg them on to never compromise with Israel, “for their own good”?
ok muslimah i rather live in a cave that living in a worl where all the evil are Israel fault…Israel DIDN?T cut any power lince, no water line…ok Israel blocked an iranian ship with aid for palestinian people…but give me a break iran is know for furnishing arm to Hamas and by the way….why no a word about Egypt that is blocking entry to GAza….and by the way some fanatical are screming that a bojcot of Israel stuff is due…ok so start stopping using computer (pentium was prjected in Israel) and medicine….if Israel is a so an evil country why some palestinians sought asylum in Israel…their only fault was being gay…. just tell me what do you think about Hamas and its willingnes to use Sharia as law in Gaza? If Hams is a so peaceful organization why its members are killing the members of the opposition party fatha? Please grown up
Someone cross-connected a gas line to the water service? Bad plumber.
No, Gaza’s little children don’t deserve to die. Hamas should abandon its philosophy of “involuntary martyrdom” and stop making attacks from schools and from behind children. No more hostages as human shields.
How can Israel be criticized at all for Hamas’ attempts at creating civilian casualties? No report I’ve seen, including Al-Jazeera (English), says that Israel has gone out of its way to attack or injure civilians. Apparently all such casualties are due to Israel’s accurate targeting of Hamas forces.
What we have here is one of the world’s strongest military power killing hundreds of civilians . If America truly stands for what’s right and decent, she will act immediately to stop Israel by threatening to withhold aid, and then sort through the details later
@ Noga: You say:
“When Arabs read reports about the most heinous crimes attributed to Israel, they never pause to ask themselves whether these are true, verifiable and can be independently validated from different sources.”
And yet you link two Israeli websites that are not true,verifiable or verified from different sources.
Also you say this:
“Never forget that you are 300 million Arabs, in possesstion of 99.9% of the region known as the Middle East, including all of the oil. Israel, by comparison is tiny, Jewish, with no resources except for the contents of its people’s minds and talents, living on 0.01% of the M-E territory.”
This is sily. Look, Saudi Arabia will give Israel the Rubail Al-Khali (Empty Quarter, look it up on wiki) It’s bigger then the land they own now so it should be a fair trade right?
@countrygirl: You obviously haven’t read my replies in the previous posts .
“Just tell me why Palestinian didn’t use the tons of money they receivein for the people?”
Hamas uses nearly 90% of the money they receive to fund social welfare programs like Schools,Soup Kitchens,sports leagues,hospitals and the like.
You also said:
“in 1948 there was the possibilities of two states but the arabs refused….Israel isn’t your holy land, there weren’t a state Palestine…before there was Turks, then the english…”
And guess what? Their wasn’t a state of Israel either! Wow! The Arabs refused because it gave the majority of the land to the minority of the people.
“Israel DIDN?T cut any power lince, no water line…ok ”
Due to the blockade:
*Gaza doesn’t have fuel or spare parts for it’s power station
*Gaza doesn’t have Chlorine to purify water.
*20% of ambulances do not work due to lack of spare parts and fuel
*The UN ran out of food shortly to distribute to refugees.
“If Hams is a so peaceful organization why its members are killing the members of the opposition party fatha? Please grown up”
Because maybe Fatah members killed and tortured Hamas members?
You said :
“How can Israel be criticized at all for Hamas’ attempts at creating civilian casualties? No report I’ve seen, including Al-Jazeera (English), says that Israel has gone out of its way to attack or injure civilians. Apparently all such casualties are due to Israel’s accurate targeting of Hamas forces.”
Amnesty international has accused both sides of using Human shields in the conflict.
Also, look up the Zeitoun incident.
And while I find Israel’s claims that “Hamas were hiding there!” increasingly silly when used for UN location considering that the UN has completely contradicted Israel on numerous claims.
I’ve been following the news from Gaza and learning even more about the state of all Palestinians. Needless to say, I am appalled.
I could write a long comment on my thoughts, but my views can be read on my own blog: valkayec.wordpress.com. Might I add that as this war continues, American public opinion, as exemplified by wordpress, has turned against Israel. More and more Americans have begun to educate themselves on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict only to find themselves supporting the Palestinians.
Like many other highly knowledgeable scholars on Israeli-Palestinian affairs, it is becoming apparent that a two-state solution is virtually impossible, given the fact that Israel has illegally allowed the occupation of most of the West Bank and that Gaza is nothing more than a ghetto.
The international community, including the U.S., must pressure Israel by denying it foreign aid and U.N. support into changing its apartheid policies towards Palestinians. In pressuring Israel to grant full rights of citizenship as well as legal and judicial redress, Israel and Palestine could become one secular (non-religious, non-jewish) nation that values the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness of all of its citizens.
I hope you will work with the rest of us who are pressing our leaders for an end not only of this current conflict but to a final, fair, just and honorable solution for both peoples.
The Killing Fields of Palestine must come to an end.
Zeitoun? I got something about a single, possibly isolated incident involving the deaths of dozens of Gaza civilians for reasons the AJ reporter omitted because visiting the area was “not safe” – that is, it was in the middle of a war zone between Israel and Hams. More of Hamas’ “human shields”, perhaps?
I’m not finding anything current about human shields at Amnesty’USA’s website. I do read that Amnesty says Israel is responsible for conducting its own criminal investigations of its own personnel, whereas Amnesty implies Gazans are under no such obligation, because Gazans don”t hold themselves to be a “state”. According to AI, then, no one is responsible for prosecuting Hamas for war crimes, including employing little Gazan children as human shields.
“I find Israel’s claims that “Hamas were hiding there!” increasingly silly when used for UN location considering that the UN has completely contradicted Israel -”
Terrorists have operated extensively from UN and UNRWA facilities in Gaza for years. You may be surprised to discover that this is against the rules. In the absence of action by the UN executive, there is no legal mechanism for investigating UN personnel for their deficiencies. UN personnel have every reason, then, to lie about illegal activities under their watch.
Okay, I’m going to be considered way off base and probably nuts, but has anyone seriously, logically looked at war practices and legal war rules?
The rules say: you can do this kind of killing but not that kind of killing. They say you can act badly this way but not act badly that way.
It’s CRAZY! All of it is totally outside the realm of logic and rationality.
Maybe the planet should be given back to the beasts (as in wild animals). At least there is some reason and rationality and logic in the way wild animals behave. I’m ever more convinced human beings have not risen to the level of wild animals.
“I hope you will work with the rest of us who are pressing our leaders for an end not only of this current conflict but to a final, fair, just and honorable solution for both peoples.”
What would be that solution, in your opinion?
Mohamed S. :
I just provided you with an alternative source of information. Just to make you realize that other news sources are providing different kind of information which do not quite support what you read in your news media (which I check regularly, when they are in English or translated into English). If you find one source not reliable, you can try other media outlets to verify your information.
The question is, of course, do you want to know the truth? Or do you want your current knowledge to remain unthreatened by any contradictory type of information?
BTW, the link I provided may have been an Israeli website, but the source of the news was AFB:
I didn`t have the chance to read all the comments…but
I wiil give you a small comparison
in the 20th day in this ugly war,only 13 israelan soliders”not civilians”are killed
on the other hand a 1054 palestinian are killed including (335 child, 100 women and 108 elderly)
and by the way unated state is sending a boat full weapons to Israel…US support them to continue their CRIME???!!!!!!
While Israel military attacks humanitarian boat to Gaza full of medical supplies and food… UN is silent and no action!!!!!
the UNRWA building in gaza is bomed…Israel is breaking all the international laws, using forbidden weapon against civilians(I don`t think that Hamas are the one who`s having the white phosporurs-gas shells)…and again NO ACTION!!!!!
### and about you saying “Why nobody in arab worl said a world when children are shown on tv wearing a kamikaze uniform or stating that they want to grown up a being a terrorist”
mybe because the Zionist are making their children write on the bombs “DIE PEACEFULLY” to the lebanese children in the last war on Lebanon!!!!
“mybe because the Zionist are making their children write on the bombs “DIE PEACEFULLY”
No, in the ONE INCIDENT you managed to find, the children were sending a message to Hassan Nassralah, who had just sent 120 katiushas to bomb them as they slept at night. Would you feel sad for Nassralah’s death, btw?
And compared with this one incident, how many times have we seen little Palestinian kids being taught that to kill a Jew is the highest honour?
As i said, you need to diversify the sources of your information. You might be surprised at how gullible you were to believe all the spin and lies.
As for Israel’s use of so called “forbidden weapons” once again you are misinformed.
“The International Red Cross said Tuesday that Israel has fired white phosphorus shells in its offensive in the Gaza Strip, but has no evidence to suggest it is being used improperly or illegally…”In some of the strikes in Gaza it’s pretty clear that phosphorus was used,” Peter Herby, head of of the organization’s mines-arms unit told The Associated Press. “But it’s not very unusual to use phosphorus to create smoke or illuminate a target. We have no evidence to suggest it’s being used in any other way.”
I do not want to get sucked into taking sides, but you all make me want to point out that this is all because of religion in one form or the other. We all could argue all day long about whose land it was first or which people claim to hold the land “more holy.” Maybe both sides are at fault, we all create atrocities against our fellow man. Don’t hold this against me but if God doesn’t love all of us for our own unique sense of self, God can’t be much of a God. Why do we all hold absolutes? It appears that none of you know what gray looks like? Everyone is aware that countries are just kind of drawn on a map; nothing really changes except our perception of that reality. Under no circumstance have I ever shared publicly my thoughts, today an exception stands:
The first light of time has brought our human trial to revolve around the progressive advancement of human contemplation. The current impious global mix of an unending war, hunger, and global racism bears it ugly head showing a face in the mirror reflecting that age does not always abide to wisdom.
The culture of humanity in its simplicity feels antipathy to hatred and cruelty, the reminder of instinct even in the pacifist. Tonight darkness will reign again, unwilling to fail; purity and the righteous must step aside.
Individuals may rely on their faith to encourage themselves in hardship and difficulty. Religion may be invoked at times of loss and injustice. But it is impossible to utilized religion to give explanation for killing and self-mutilation, without destroying the foundations of religion itself. I wonder if God will ever forgive us for what we have done to each other.
Here is the amensty international report you have requested:
specifically this part:
““Our sources in Gaza report that Israeli soldiers have entered and taken up positions in a number of Palestinian homes, forcing families to stay in a ground floor room while they use the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position,” said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty International’s Middle East and North Africa Programme. “This clearly increases the risk to the Palestinian families concerned and means they are effectively being used as human shields.””
Also to your comment about the Zeitoun incident:
So your going to blame the fact that Israel herded Women and Children into a house with no water and electricity and then shelled it 24 hours later on Hamas using human shields? How could Hamas even get near there when it was under Israeli military control?
Also about the UN comment:
Yet Israel can provide no proof on the fact that gunmen ever fired from the UN school even when the UN said that no fire ever came from there. And let’s play with the fact that maybe Hamas fired from there. Why blow up the school? The terrorists are long gone by now.
And oh yeah, nice retort. “The UN is untrustworthy” is the most common argument used to counter claims by UN officials.
This is your problem, you assume things about people.
My news sources are the BBC and Reuters mostly. Only rarely do I look at Al-Jazeera.
And I’m not arguing the fact that Israel has let aid into Gaza (in very minuscule amounts) but the other link where you said that Hamas was stealing aid and selling it which your new link does not state.
I’m with J Foster. The problem isn’t Hamas, and it isn’t the IDF. It’s the masses on both sides, brainwashed by a lifetime of propaganda, cheerleading on their tribe.
They’re blind to the sins of “their side”. We don’t often hear Arabs condemn the blowing up of pizza parlours and buses, and we rarely read the New York Post condemn Israel for the illegal and provocative settlements.
Even suggest (like I am now) that there are shades of grey and the blame is shared, and the cheerleaders lapse into predictable and tired dogma, clinging to their talking points and desperately struggling *not* to understand the other side.
They’re not interested in a solution – they’re only interested in winning. And they define winning as the complete destruction of the other side. Until Israel and the Palestinians are led by people who want peace more than the annihilation of their neighbors – and neither are right now – there will be no end.
it’s shame that we discuss the right of children to live normal life…
Noga, Isreal instead of finding a way to stop rockets, they kill every living creature using freaking power, forbidden weapons and tons of bombs enough to eradicate the humanity and guess what,Hamas still resist and rockets never stopped.
blood shedding must stop. this war won’t solve anything but bring tragedy and more hatred..
State of Zion has proved it cannot ever co-exist with its neighbors. State of Zion must be isolated and never ever dealt with by the Arabs or Muslims, we must rely on ourselves for once in a lifetime.
Say NO to the crimes against humanity committed by the Israelis.
P.S: Israelis refer to the Zionists who commit the crimes we see on the news, it doesn’t refer to the great Prophet of God Jacob or his righteous children whom many of them were Prophets of God.
## ”in the ONE INCIDENT you managed to find, the children were sending a message to Hassan Nassralah”
What an irony!!!???
the message is for Nassralah…but more than 1000 people die
and guess what??? Nassralah is still alive
## “But it’s not very unusual to use phosphorus to create smoke or illuminate a target.”
the target for Israel is the houses full of families, schools used as refuge,hospitals and mosques
a young girl lost her legs, an almost 10 years old boy lost his eyes, hundreds of people are burned with this “white phosphorus” weapons
Are those innocent people are the target????!!!!
no comment. :)
just wanna say, poor obama. :D
M.S., next time I’ll go to AI’s main site, the story still doesn’t show up at AIUSA.
Note that the description you quoted is not evidence of the employment of human shields by Israeli forces, not unless AI believes Hamas has the capability to blow up entire buildings after they have been occupied by Israeli forces. The risk to civilians is probably decreased, not increased – they won’t be fired on by Israelis, and Hamas will probably shoot at the Israelis on the upper floors, don’t you think?
<<How could Hamas even get near there when it was under Israeli military control?
News reports from Israel today say that the most determined Hamas fighters, about 100 trained by Iran and Hezbollah, were wiped out in Zeitoun. Is it true? I don’t know. Nor do I know why the civilians were left without treatment for hours – that isn’t something the Israelis typically do. Maybe this is an example of what is called, "the fog of war".
"Israel can provide no proof on the fact that gunmen ever fired from the UN school even when the UN said that no fire ever came from there."
The U.N. isn’t saying that; the IDF has posted too many YouTube videos to back up its claims for it to make such a bald disclaimer. Instead they are quietly asking Israel for its evidence.
"“The UN is untrustworthy” is the most common argument used to counter claims by UN officials."
Sometimes "common arguments" are true.
my last comment on here- i’ll support palestine against israeli occupation till my last breath. their land was stolen, they’ve every right to fight back. God will grant them victory one day. and I’ve no doubt abt that.
“Children” is defined as anyone under the age of 18. I suspect that many of the casualties that Hamas lists as “children” are teenage fighters. In any case, the figures released so far are all from Hamas. They are likely to turn out to be exaggerated.
But certainly some young Gazan children (under twelve) have died or been injured. Nobody could be pleased about that.
I think if Hamas rockets were more effective, or Israeli warning sirens less effective, there would be many dead Israeli children too. Hamas is certainly trying to kill them.
“their land was stolen, they’ve every right to fight back.”
Should the Jews “fight back” for the return of Yathrib, too?
Good point Solomon, I didn’t think about this before.
Gaza children didn’t deserve to die, like the children of Israel. But their parents chosen Hamas and the path of war. The Jihad. Whatever their reason to do so, they voted for war and they reaped their desire.
Citing the Quran:
“The believers fight in Allah’s cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed” (Qur’an 9:111)
So the soldier of Hamas have no reason to complain.
But what did Mohammad tell about civilians in a war zone?
Narrated As-Sab bin Jathama : the prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack Al-Mushrikun warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The prophet replied,“They (i.e., women and children) are from them (i.e., Al-Mushrikun).” (The book of Jihad #3012, p157)
Also a Fatwa from the site of the Salafi preacher Salman al-Oadah agree with this.
So, why Muslims are so angry if the Israelis use their rules against them?
The civilians are so intermixed with the Hamas combatants that is not always possible to avoid to kill them.
Hamas don’t respect this, because they attack with rockets and shell civilians, women and children, as these weapons are so crude that they are useless against military targets.
But I didn’t read anything against Hamas doing this.
Why don’t the Arab states allow the Palestinians to become their citizen? They are prevented forever to become Saudis, Egyptians, Syrians, Iranians and so on. The only states willing to give them the chance to become citizen are the western ones.
Why Egypt don’t allow Palestinians to cross the border with Gaza?
Maybe because they don’t like when the thugs of Hamas kill their policemen in their office in cold blood when thy refuse to go away and leave their duty.
Why arabs like you cheer when people Samir Kuntar are freed and call him “hero”?
Why a Jews can not live in an Arab country with the same rights of the Muslims Arabs when Arabs can live in Israel with the same rights of Jews?
Why a Jews can become Muslim in Israel and live free and unharmed and a Muslim (Arab or not) can not become an Israelite or a Christian without being harassed and killed?
You are a liar.
Israel live in peace with Egypt and Jordanian.
When Egypt accepted the right of Israel to exist and asked for peace, Israel gave back the Sinai and removed the settlers. Egypt didn’t want Gaza back.
Jordanian asked for peace and obtained it. And it didn’t asked the West Bank back.
Egypt and Jordanian never attacked Israel after this and Israel never attacked them. Now many Israelis went in the Sinai as tourists, until they were attacked and killed by Islamic terrorists.
So, Israel have show that it can live in peace with the people that stop attacking it.
”in the ONE INCIDENT you managed to find, the children were sending a message to Hassan Nassralah”
What an irony!!!???
the message is for Nassralah…but more than 1000 people die
and guess what??? Nassralah is still alive”
What does your answer have to do with the question? Can you read a comment and respond directly to what its gist is?
Someone mentioned this incident with the kids. I explained. So you respond by a 1000 dead people (of whom 700 were Hizzbulla militants) and Nassralah alive (well, he lives in a cave if it’s any consolation).
Is it your custom to vilify little children because they are Jewish? Why aren’t you outraged by the mind warping hatred that is being taught systematically and routinely to little Palestinian kids on Hamas TV?
I get the impression that you are terribly prejudiced against Israelis and Jews. You want to believe all these monstrosities. Why? Does it comfort you to think Jews are so evil?? You can’t even express rational thoughts without a sneer and a defamation. Don’t you ever wonder, don’t you ever question?
While some of what you say is true i.e that Hamas and other factions have in the past taught children to hate.
Can you answer this?
Do you not think that the children of Gaza have been taught by the Israelis over the last three weeks to hate Israel? Don’t you think that this hate will burn in their hearts and destroy their souls for lifetime and that it will be passed in turn to their children?
What has Israel achieved? Has it achieved the goal it purported to set out for; a lasting security for its people?
I have witnessed over the past three weeks nothing more than a cynical, well timed ‘pest control’ operation prosecuted by the Nazis of the 21st century aided an abetted by the vast majority of the world’s leaders.. arab and western.
Have they, indeed have not we learned lessons from history?
ربي يجزاه كل الخير على عمله ويجعله في ميزان حسناته
“Do you not think that the children of Gaza have been taught by the Israelis over the last three weeks to hate Israel? ”
Children are taught what their parents and teachers teach them. If these parents and teachers will teach them that the disasters of the last three weeks were inflicted by Israel but in response to Hamas killing, targeting, lusting for the killing of israeli kids (in the names of Palestinians and Arabs everywhere) , they will gain a very different perspective and will learn a very different lesson from the one you predict.
But it is a choice, a conscious, voluntary choice the parents have to make. Do they want their kids growing up with that kind of putrid, suicidal? Or do they want their kids to have a chance at a real normal life?
All Palestinians need to do is stop attacking Israelis, stop killing Israelis, stop wanting and planning to kill Israelis, and they will never suffer another death from an Israeli bullet.
Violence begets violence. What are the roots of the rocket attacks by Hamas? The terror and violence of imprisonment and starvation over eighteen long months was perpetrated by Israel. How would you react? I have talked to ordinary families forced to live like rats using tunnels to move food, clothing and fuel. I have been on the ground and seen the rockets fired by Hamas.. mere homemade fireworks compared to the hellfire missiles fired into the city centres of Rafa, Khan Younis and Gaza City by F16s just an hour after IDF helipcopters dropped terror leaflets warning citizens explicitly of more pain to come.. Telling them to leave their homes and to go to the places of safety.. which in turn were attacked. Listen if you like to Israeli propaganda but also travel to Gaza.. see the carnage for yourself and then ask yourself who the real terrorists are
“Violence begets violence. What are the roots of the rocket attacks by Hamas?”
What were the roots of the rocket attacks by the Nazis? Unjustified hatred, government-enflamed and popularly supported. Hamas isn’t that different, they’re just weaker and more murderous. Had they the arms to do so they would turn Gazans into the Daleks of the Middle East.
As for hatred: liking and being liked by your neighbor isn’t very useful if that means he or his kids get their kicks out of killing you in return. It is the lesson of the failed Oslo process that people should have absorbed when Arafat ignited the “second intifada”: it is better to be hated and alive rather than liked and dead.
Violence beget violence, until it solve it.
The Israeli (I continue to note that Muslims don’t like to write this word) and the Palestinians living today are at 99% born after the 1948. So any and all of them are guilty free from what they father and grandfather and grand-grandfather did.
Israel will not go away. It has a land (God given they think – where they are not strangers) and it will not leave it unless they are exterminated.
Palestinians can choose to live in peace with them, with the land they have (Gaza and West Bank) or continue to combat against Israel and risk to lose anything they have and continue to inflict to their children a life of misery, death, feat and blind hate.
Hamas is an organization of Nazi-like Islamists (I never found a Ghandi-like Islamist) that declare that they want conquer the world (they often cite Rome) for Islam and impose the shaaria to all infidel and kafir.
It is right to let this bunch of criminals (they killed 700 Palestinians (half of what did Israel in the last 3 weeks) when they conquered Gaza. Are the Palestinians killed by Hamas less human than the Palestinians killed by Israel?
Palestinians will stop attacking Israel when they will receive the same treatment that Germans received in and after the WW2. Until the international community always save their collective ass they will not be interested in peace.
So, my bet is that this operation will not be resolutive for the peace. I bet on Netanyau on doing what is needed, whatever the costs.
Solomon and Mirco.. Have you been to the region? Or are your views formed by media and propaganda.
I look at both of them and, for the measure I used to measure them, the Arab side is laking.
I know Jews are not spotless or without sin, but this is common with all human beings.
But, between who that built a garden in the desert with their hands and minds and who that only know how to kill and maim and menace and destroy, I will always side with the builders. Between a democracy that respect all human being and states, nations, people and parties that know only hates, repression, intolerance I side with the tolerant people, with the democratic and with the people that hate to hate their enemies.
What reason do I to support a side that is intolerant against Christians? What reason I have to support the side that declare their aim to conquest all the world and kill the people like me or force me to convert or submit to them?
I don’t need to go there to form an opinion. I can see what it is show to me and verify if it is true or false. When a party try to feed me shit I know is is not my friend. And I know they are not my friend when they kill people in my country (the killing of a Jews baby ( I can look at what I see, use my critical ) in the 1982 by the Palestinians, the attack on El Al in the airport of Rome, the hijacking of the Achille Lauro (and the killing of a paraplegic Jews named Klighoffer that was shot and throw out of the ship). Then I see who support the Palestinian in Europe, their protest near always degenerate in provocations or violence against pacific people. I never hear of a pro-Israel, pro-Jews protest degeneration in violence (apart when they are attacked). And I never hear your to reject violence as a way to obtain your goal. The best I read was about “violence is not the better tool”.
Do you believe the Shoa didn’t happen?
Do you see the camps?
Do you see the video about?
Is it all propaganda?
“And I never hear your to reject violence as a way to obtain your goal. ”
I have consistently stated that in my view the best and only way for Arabs to achieve our goals is through NON-violent resistance.
Renunciation of the instruments of violence, coupled with a renunciation of violence, and combined simultaneously with non-violent resistance are the best and only way to achieve our legitimate goals of justice and dignity.
I would add that I find your constant theological diatribes to be tiresome and purposeless.
A solution to the issues with our adversaries will NEVER include a renunciation of Islam, as you seem to seek.
I also think the non violent way are best and the only way; but are they the only right and just? And violent ways are always wrong?
Take in account that non-violent never implied the renunciation of the use of the force; only the renunciation of the use of the force first as people have the right and the duty to defend themselves from attacks (attacks intended as something that take your property, your life and your liberty).
But I push my question more:
1) Do you think the Shoa happenend?
2) What do you think about what the palestinians did on the Achille Lauro and the killing of a paraplegic Jews?
3) What do you think about what the palestinian did at Rome when they attacked the airport?
4) What do you think about the attack to the sinagugue of Rome where they killed a baby?
5) What do you think about what the palestinian rapresentative in Europa (their ambassador) of the Palestinian National Autority (not Hamas) tell a few days ago?
pho: yes, I’ve been to the region. I learned that there could be a great variance between what is reported on the world news and what I witnessed in person. The most striking was a report about a demonstration in Jerusalem at Damascus Gate, complete with video footage; yet I was there when the demonstration supposedly happened and saw nothing.
I rarely watch TV. I think my viewpoint is most strongly formed by books, personal interactions, and critical analysis, especially of what I read on the Internet.
You guys need to widen your approach to such things, children dying or living is meaningless, all humans are guinea pigs controlled like puppets by the almighty aka Allah. All tears have been wasted into the wrong direction, you should cry for god and not for humans, period.
besides, who r u to decide wither it’s fair or unfair eeeeh? I consider that blasphemy.
All I see here mostly at least in part is people who cling to their religion and guns. Obama said that about certain people in the U.S. and I could guess he might feel the same way reading the threads here.
I think what J. Foster had to say in his post is the best.
Personally it seems like a battle of wills and each side is intent on winning and so caught up in the passion that they are willing to achieve it at any cost even at the cost of the loss of innocent lives especially those of children. Each side seems to find every excusable way of dehumanizing the other. God must be smiling down on humanity today!
Let me just say what Obama said in his inauguration speech along the lines of history will judge us by what we build not by what we can destroy. To make it clear I think everybody is supposed to think about that statement below without bias but as a modes of self reflection:.
“To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society’s ills on the West — know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy.”
I think Arab governments would do the Palestinians a service but leaving the “cause” to them (the Palestinians) and not in the name of “Islam” because they in effect have blood stained hands.
We here in New Zealand many of us feel so sorry that the Palistian people of Gaze have to put up with such an evil nasty bastards the Zios Jews that stole your land with lies the 1948 was all instigated by Rothchield Zion Jews Rockerfellows and Warberge and Syiffs We hope that another country will quickly drop the biggest bomb on the Jews and wipe all of them our including NY Washington and England also Rome other citys until you reach the magic number 666 and repeat as othen until you acheive the the required result (No more Jews)
Excuse me, the webmaster shouldn’t take sides? So this blog should only hold apologetically western views of everything, even support for zionist terrorism? What hubris! Typical white bullshit, supporting invasion, occupation, of other nations and yet decry any resistance.
The only people who support Israel are Zionist Jews and a pathological sect of fake Christians. Palestinians are supported by everyone else.
They have every right to fire rockets at the genocidal bastards who have been exterminating them for over 6 decades.
Long after the battle, undistorted information emerges, as well as the terrible price the “victors” exacted from their captive populace:
UN Backtracks on School Shelling Claims: Maxwell Gaylord, the UN humanitarian coordinator in Jerusalem, said Monday that the IDF mortar shells fell in the street near the compound, and not on the compound itself. Gaylord said that the UN “would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school.
Amnesty Int’l documents Hamas repression. The only problem is that their primary source is the PA:
Hamas forces and militias in the Gaza Strip have engaged in a campaign of abductions, deliberate and unlawful killings, torture and death threats against those they accuse of “collaborating” with Israel, as well as opponents and critics.
This recalls Khruschev’s 1956 denunciation of Stalin: Stalin was bad because he murdered members of the Communist Party; no word was spared for millions of Stalin’s other victims.
Human rights groups argued Wednesday that a detailed probe into Hamas’s firing of Kassam rockets at Israeli communities is not necessary, because it constitutes such a “blatant” war crime. By contrast, Israel’s actions are more complex, and therefore do require such investigation, they said… said Sarit Micha’eli of B’tselem… “It is quite clear that [Hamas is] attacking and targeting civilians… With Israel things are more complicated because Israel states it does not deliberately target civilians and that it safeguards them. With Israel, you have to investigate each specific incident because even if a civilian is killed in an attack…” “The Israeli authorities deny everything, so one has to prove what happened in a way that you don’t need to do with the Palestinian rockets,” said Donatella Rovera of Amnesty International.
No children deserve to die. The answer is simple. When you think about the children of Gaza, think about children everywhere. I wish more Americans could see this video, and videos like it. American’s just don’t know, or don’t understand, how much our support of Israel is damaging an entire population. Israel is deliberately targeting civilians. Even American news stations are starting to report on it and the immense loss of human life… but no one listens. I can’t even pretend to understand or agree with in part what Israel does, because it is wrong. It is the murdering of innocent human life, children, using disproportionate force. The children of Gaza have nowhere to go, because they are not there by choice, and Israel won’t let them out when the bombs come dropping and the soldiers invade their cities and land. Israel is blatantly lying when it says it doesn’t “target children or civilians” because Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth… and the children have no place else to go. Not to mention the fact that they are hitting schools, mosques, UN Aid buildings where civilians are shelter. Blatant lies and an Orwellian covering up of the truth of their actions.
No children deserve to die, and I hold Israel, and the United States as a supporter of Israel, and the rest of the world for standing by and doing nothing…responsible for the deaths of the children in Gaza.
deliberately targeting civilians, mara? are you joking??
you are ridiculous. absolutely ridiculous and ignorant, too.
if israel was targeting civilians, it could easily carpet bomb the gaza strip with the drop of a hat.
and there is ALWAYS somewhere to go. if a mosque, that happens to be hoarding weapons, is targeted, then civilians can go to a different location for the time being.
that what your problem is. you blame israel first, instead of the real culprit, hamas. despicable.
ps. to the douchebag a few comments above me; if israel’s goal for the past 60 years is genocide of the palestinians, they sure are doing an extremely shitty job of it.
If Israel WASN’T targeting civilians, there wouldn’t be documentation that they were sending civilians to “safe houses” and then bombing them later.
If Israel WASN’T targeting civilians, the UN wouldn’t have had to cease humanitarian aid for awhile. Because, let’s face it, if you’re shooting at UN workers, you’re not targeting Hamas operatives. You’re indiscriminately firing.
So, you think people can just leave where they are staying? There are curfews in place, and NOWHERE in Gaza was safe to walk in the streets due to the siege.
Oh yeah, do you remember another time when curfews were in place against an ethnic minority? Do you remember another time when people were indiscriminately killed based on their ethnicity? You guessed it – the Holocaust.
Hamas isn’t innocent of wrongdoing, but neither are the Israelis. Keep that in mind.
UN ceased humanitarian because Hamas stolen goods that were intended to be distributed free of charge from the UN.
The UN worker was shooted by Hamas people. Then they claimed Israeli soldier did it. Then the journalists relayed the Hamas version, where the Israeli take time to check if or not the killing was by one of their soldier. So, when the truth come out, it was not a cool news and dropped from the newspapers and TV news.
The journalists want sell a “narrative”, not fact checked news. It is mainly entertainment that so much people mistake for informations.
If Israel was targeting civilians, there would be hundreds or thousands dead civilians every day. There would not be any Palestinian woman willing to deliver in a Israeli hospital. They would not let UN food to be delivered from Israel or Egypt.
If and when Israel will want get rid itself from all the Palestinians, it will be done in a few weeks. And you will see hundreds of thousands of people escaping in Egypt fast like a bat out of hell.
I think both of the above posts make excellent points. Hamas is certainly absolved of wrongdoing, just as Israel is not. The point that I was making in my above post about the targeting of civilian directly has to do with the density of the population in Gaza. If Israel was taking extraordinary efforts to avoid civilian casualities, they would let the women and children out of Gaza, open the borders. When a Palestinian in Gaza gets a phone call saying that their town is going to be bombed, or that there is going to be an army raid there… where are they to go?
Also… I think the point that has been made about “if Israel wanted to target Palestinian civilians and get rid of the Palestinian people they would have done so in a few weeks” has a hole in it. One must remember that no country on this world can just “exterminate” an entire population, point blank, carte blanche without incredible repercussions from the international community. The way that Israel is treating the Palestinians is condemnable, but because of the way in which they are conducting this offensive, and the statements they are making… it is more difficult for the global community to outright condemn Israel for their actions. Israel can get away with these civilians deaths, and make life as miserable as possible for the international community as long as their actions are not on a large scale, (and as long as they have the undying support of the United States). Israel may not be deliberately “targeting” civilians with their bombs, but they are not taking great pains to avoid civilian deaths.
In addition, they are “targeting” civilians by making life miserable not just for the Palestinians in Gaza (ostensibly due to the presence of Hamas), but also the Palestinians in the West Bank, where there is little or no Hamas presence. The fragmentation of Palestinian communities in the West bank due to Israeli presence is astounding… hundreds of settlements and checkpoints, roads that are for Israeli use only, and a massive wall… 80% of which is on Palestinian land, prevent these people from moving about freely IN THEIR OWN LAND (according to the “two-state solution”). This violates Article 12 of the International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights which states,”everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.”
Israel’s actions, in Gaza and in the West Bank, just don’t hold up to their “security” argument (for example… why would 80% of the wall be on Palestinian land in the West bank… leaving thousands of Palestinians on…the other side?) Hamas is no less guilty, as witnessed by the post above, but I think it is possible to deplore both of the actors in this situation and still find sympathy for the suffering of the Palestinian people.
Last time I checked, Gaza border with Egypt. Strange the egyptian don’t allow them to enter.
So, if the egyptian don’t allow them to enter, why Israel must let them enter.
They are not suicidal, they will not let women and children (and men) enter in Israel only to become refugees inside Israel, then claiming some right for this.
Israel is taking much more pain to avoid palestinina’s civilian losses than Hamas do with Israel civilian losses. I would say that Hamas is a bunch of killers interested only in killing any and all civillians in Israel. But it is like Islam teached to them. Kill, submit, convert whoever is not like you. Destroy what you don’l like or is not Islamic.
Palestinians one or two thing:
1) Prisoniers of Hamas, so whatever happen to them is Hamas that is guilty, because they force Israel to react and defend itself.
2) Willing electors of Hamas, so they deserve what they receive from Israel, as they elected a bunch of genocidal maniacs to lead them. And they knew well what Hamas is and want.
If I the Israel leadership, I would :
1) Stop all goods from entering in Gaza from the Israel border. Hamas say Israel don’t exist, so who will want they blame, apart for themselves? Let Egypt help / allow passage for the palis from its border with Gaza
2) Close the passage of water, electricity, from Israel. They don’t exist until Hamas admit Israel exist and have the right to exist in peace.
3) As, politely, for Gilad Shalit (That was kidnapped inside Israel). This is an act of war. This must be answered in kind. Any and all day he is not let free, Israel destroy a house in Gaza. Starting with the houses of Hamas.
As they are very civilized, they could hand out a timeline stating where and when the houses will be destroyed. Then, it is up to Hamas to release Gilad Shalit or take the punishment.
4) Anytime a rocket or a shell is launched inside Israel, a rocket or a shell is launched inside Gaza, to the next target in the list.
5) For any israeli killed by Hamas, I would move the border 1 meter ahead, and annex the land; starting from north and going south. And, obviously, freeing the land from the people living there. I consider it a way to payback for the wrongdoing of Hamas.
There will be no peace, until the palestinians don’t want peace. Israel gave Gaza hoping for peace. If they are not able to have the peace, why not retake the land without the palis inside?
I have no simpaty for the palestinian people; they make their beds, now they can and must sleep insede them. Next time, better act more wisely. They could declare their state tomorrow and accept to live in peace with Israel. They are the loser. Before they recognize it, better is for them and for all. And I don’t have simpaty for them, because they have choose Hamas, they kill christians (the people converting to cristianity from Islam), they kill homosexuals, they don’t produce nothing worth buying.
Surely all praise is for Allah. We praise him and we seek his help. We seek his forgiveness from him and seek refuge in him from the evil of our souls and the wickedness of our deeds. Whomever He guides none can misguide him and whosoever He misguides there is none who can guide him. I bear witness the none has the right to be worshipped in truth except Allah alone, who has no partners, and I bear witness that Muhammad (pbuh) is his slave and final messenger.
Verily the best speech is the speech of Allah and the best guidance is the guidance Muhammad (pbuh) and every newly made affair into the religion of Islam is an innovation and every innovation is a going astray and every going astray is in the Fire of Hell.
Allah say in the Qur’aan “Verily I created life and death to see which of you are best in deeds. And he is the All-Mighty, The Oft-Forgiving.” Allah also say “Nay you prefer the life of the world, although the Hereafter is better for you and more lasting. Verily this is in the former scriptures- the scriptures of Ibrahim (Abraham) and Musa (Moses).
Allah also says “By Al-Asr (the time). Verily, man is in loss,. Except those how believe (in Islamic monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, and recommend one another to the truth [i.e. order one anther to perform all kinds of good deeds (al-Ma’ruf) which Allah has ordained, and abstain from all kinds of sin and evil deeds (Al-Munkar) which Allah has forbidden], and recommend one another in patience (for the sufferings, harms and injures which one may encounter in Allah’s cause during preaching His religion of Islamic monotheism or jihad). So what I’m getting from this is that Allah is telling the Muslims to be good and not to due bad deeds. I read another verse from the Qur’aan stating the punishment for those that do bad evil things in the land which will be explained in the latter as we go on.
Allah said in the Qur’aan “whosoever keeps their trust in Allah and is dutiful to him he will make a way for them to get out of every hardship and provide them from things they never could imagine”
he also says “who ever opposes the sunnah of Muhammad and choose a path other than the way of Allah we shall leave them in the path they choose and land them in the fire of hell”
by Allah Us Muslims are being humiliated but why………………………………………………….why…….? Us Muslims and our children are being killed and punished by Allah for no other reason we can see except because we have turned away from the book of Allah and the sunnah of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and we have chosen a path other than the way of Allah. But it not strange be cause Allah messengers said in an authentic hadith “the Jews will split in to 71 sect the Christians 72 and the Muslims 73 all of them are in hell except 1. and his companions asked which sect is it (of the Muslims that won’t go to hell) that won’t go to hell he, Allah’s messenger said the sect that is upon that which me and my companions today.
And the mass majority of Muslims today are not on the sunnah so now Allah’s punishment has descended upon us. Here it is people like Usama bin-ladin blowing builds and justifying the killing of innocent people. By Allah do we not fear his punishment as Allah said in the Qur’aan the punishment for terrorism in Islam “ The recompense for those who wage war and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from every land (no country in the world should allow them to stay). That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter. Except for those who (having fled away and then) came back (as Muslims) with repentance before they fall into your power; in that case, know that Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” However, here we say that punishment such as these are inhuman then I say to you this is it not inhuman to murder innocent people (forget children) innocent people period? Is not the inhumane punishment rightful for the inhumane sin?
By Allah oh my Muslim brother and sister turn back to the way of Allah and the Sunnah of Muhammad least I fear for you a punishment one the day of reckoning!
By Allah this humiliation won’t leave the Muslim until we repent and turn back to Allah’s true religion.
As salaam alakum
It’s really easy for people like JDF and others like me to comment on this post. We all live in our comfort zones without seeing the ugly face of war. I have seen war as a child and thanks to Allah… I was saved by great people and had a chance to live in a free country. Have you ever lived or visited the areas of war? Why don’t you JDF go and live in war zones (outside the circus around you) and maybe you’ll be able to take sides and possibly a few like me? It’s hurtful for me to see how people want to present themselves innocent and ignorant on what is the foundation of war against Islam and its planned result first presented by communists. What these ignorants don’t understand is that this world is a test for humanity and only the best in heart will win it. This is not a world on who can write better without taking sides and who can manipulate better with their tongues. Alhumdulillah for all plans being with the creator of all humankind.
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