حسبنا الله و نعم الوكيل يا ذا الجلال و العزة
اللهم انقذ المسلمين فى غزة
اللهم كن لهم عونا و نصيرا
اللهم ربنا جل ثناؤك و تقدست اسماؤك
اللهم لا يرد امرك و لا يهزم جندك
سبحانك و بحمدك
اللهم عليك باليهود الظالمين
اللهم منزل الكتاب، هازم الاحزاب، مجرى السحاب
اهزمهم و زلزلهم
اللهم ارينا فيهم عجائب قدرتك.. قتلة الرسل و الانبياء
ظلمة العزل الابرياء
اللهم حرر المسلمين فى غزة يا ذا الجلال و العزة
اللهم فك اسرهم و اشفى مريضهم و اكشف كربتهم
اللهم بدل خوفهم امنا يا ذا الجلال و العزة
اللهم اعز الاسلام و المسلمين و اذل الشرك و المشركين و دمر اعداء الدين و احمى حوزة الاسلام
و اجمع كلمة المسلمين على الحق يا رب العالمين
اللهم انج المستضعفين المسلمين فى كل مكان
اللهم اصلح احوال المسلمين فى فلسطين و العراق و فى كل مكان
اللهم الف بين قلوبهم و اهديهم سبل السلام و اخرجهم من الظلمات الى النور
يا ذا الجلال و الاكرام و العزة*
i am pro-israeli :)
Look at all this misery religion has brought in this part of the world….
Our struggle is not against Jews or Judaism, we co-existed with Jews for more than 14 centuries. Our struggle is against those who took away our homes and expelled unarmed men and women and children.
May God save our children and brothers and sisters against the barbaric genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza.
ya rab an9orhom ya rab
للهم اجمع شملهم ووحد كلمتهم وانصرهم على من عاداهم
اللهم أغث أطفال فلسطين ونساء فلسطين وشيوخ فلسطين يا حي يا قيوم برحمتك نستغيث
اللهم عليك بالصهاينة اليهود الغاصبين اللهم رد كيدهم في نحورهم
Assalamu Alaikum,
Muslims around the world are fasting in solidarity with the people of Gaza until the offensive ends.
It is expected that the offensive is going to continue for another two or three weeks.
As Muslims, we are responsible and will be accountable for what is happening to Muslims (Palestine, Chechnya, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc.) around the globe today.
The least we can do is fast in solidarity.
GAZA SONG: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfhoU66s4Y
Please forward to all Muslims you know, even if you do not agree.
“Our struggle is against those who took away our homes and expelled unarmed men and women and children”. Fair points, I agree with that, but that happened in the 1930s and 1940s. Do you think that today, after more than 70 years, in 2009, launching rockets to Israel and wanting to “throw out to the sea” seven million people will really benefit ordinary Palestinian people? Wake up, don’t get brainwashed by fanatic people driven just by hatred…
we must transfer what is happenning in gaza to people outside the arab world and show them why extremists are beeing more and more
we must transfer what is happenning in gaza to people outside arab world to show them why extremists are beeing more and more
@Zack
The Arabs accepted the Two-State solution when they were summoned in Beirut 2002, but Israel buried that in its cemetery, the Israeli people are the biggest losers in this contest, they will live in an endless circle of “contempt” by their neighbors, and they sealed that by their own hands.
Even the “moderate Arabs” lost their trust due to the clear “bias” to Israel by the United States of America.
And wished if they knew that Muslims would never sabotage the sacred properties in Palestine, since the Muslims hold dear all the traces of David, Solomon, Abraham, Isaac, Jesus Christ and Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon them all) there.
God bless the people of Gaza.
I don’t think anyone forgets thier homeland even after 70 years. Also I would like to remind you that Israel, contrary to common belief has hundreds of ILLEGAL settelments all through out the west bank. It has made palestinians refugees in their own country.
@Tiiu: Saying this is religious shows how little you know of this conflict.
@Zack: Is it strange that fanatics driven by hatred are the result of the Warsaw Ghetto of our times?
This conflict is so extremely complicated but also painfully simple… There are facts and reality: The Israelis are there to stay, the Palestinians are there to stay.
Regardless of what happened 60 years ago and the failures of the international community then, this is how things are now. We will have to find a way to make it work, a two-state solution with equitable land distribution and sovereignty. The Right of Return nonsense has to stop, and so does Israel’s ‘undefined territory.’ (Israel is the only member-state of the UN that has not defined its territory, one of the three main requirements for a state to be considered a state.)
Most importantly, though: the killing has to stop. There is no higher price than the lives of children… That’s killing the future.
@Lulu
People may don’t forget their homeland, but the life must go on.
People in all Europe moved around during and after WW2. Poles, Italians, and many others.
My grandparents were expelled from their home because they lived in Istria then part of Italy now part of Croatia and Slovenia.
They didn’t attack Jugoslavia people. They settled in Italy, formed families, raised babies, and make a life for themselves and their families. And now they are much more rich than palis. And happy. And this without 50 years of UNO money.
But for what do palis combat?
To be governed by scum like Arafat? Mughie? Bashir? Nasrallah?
To be free to crucifix people that change their religion?
Palis (like many arabs) are full of hate and don’t value life. So what they deserve and obtain is death and sorrow.
Mirco,
You need to read a little bit more about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict before you can make assumptions like that. And while I appreciate your grandparent’s story, it doesn’t seem that you have learned much in the way of coexistence and tolerance.
As for your (hateful) comments about Palestinians and Arabs, I see no need in dignifying them.
this is sad
@ Mirco
As we all appreciate your grandparents story, I believe that they would still have a homeland to go home to if they ever CHOSE to… The people of Gaza are trapped with no where to go…
I find it so sad that my father was part of the UN in the 80’s to resolve or bring calm to this situation.. we lived through it with him having moved there.. and still in 2009 there is no resolution..
Shame on the Global community for letting this happen…
All of our Governments are to blame..
I fully agree with Sara, two states with full rights is the only acceptable solutions to this conflict. The problem is: Hamas knows that the Israeli army is far superior than the Palestians in terms of arsenal and technology. Hamas knows that by launching rockets the Israeli will fight back in much larger proportion thus leading to innocent civilians, including children, to die.
So why do they keep launching rockets to Israel after almost 1000 people have been killed already? If It is very sad, but I believe that they don’t care that much about children and other innocents people, they just strumentalise their deaths for their own propaganda…
I would first like to plead at least partial ignorance of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict (war?). That’s why I’m here. I’m seeking information. I know that the media on both sides of this conflict is slanted in their reporting. It is from the people who have lived it and/or lived nearby that we can best find the truth as they see it.
Here is my question: Why are the Palestinians still in refugee camps after 60 years? By that I mean why have no other Arab countries offered them sanctuary? It is not a large number of people compared to the population of Saudi Arabia or Egypt, for example. These countries could easily absorb the additional population. I realize that many might not wish to go, but for those who would like to leave the fighting and raise their children in peace, is there a safe place for them to go. If not, then why not?
The reality of politics in M.E. is that the palis are only a tools for the governments of Arab states to justify their continued existence. What they would do without an enemy to blame for all and any trouble? They would be called to account for their ineptitude.
The same is true for Hamas, that refuse to behave like a responsible government; they are not interested in taking care of their brothers, because they place the destruction of Israel before anything other. They only are interested in the blood of Palestinians when they can use it for the propaganda.
What type of fraternal love is it needed to throw people out of high raise house? Fatah people.
Or to shoot them in the legs, so they can not profit from the Israeli attack against Hamas.
Hamas want the extermination of all Jews in Israel (so they write and tell) because their religion (don’t argue with me that they are wrong, argue with them and with people thinking like them – and act accordingly stopping them).
If you want a lasting peace, you need to kill or neutralize all people willing to fight.
Israeli went away from Gaza, without being forced, because they want peace with the Palestinians. They obtained war, terror and kidnapped people.
I say they are too much civilized. If Palestinians are not willing to live in peace, they can die in war.
And, if Israel can no have peace for territories, I would say they take the territories and kick out the people.
I always read this blog but it’s the first time i’ve ever post something….I’m wondering why nobody said a word in the last 8 years when hamas kept on sending rocket on Israel…just think onliving in a country that is daily is bombed by rocket…I’m wonder does Hamas love his own people? I don’t think so they spnt the money thyreceived in rockets, they sent youth in Israel as human bombs…they could have spent the money for the good of their own people but instead they spent it for destruction? How can Israel have peace with Hamas when in Hamas’ charter is stated that one of its goal is the destruction of Israel?
Why nobody in the arab world say anything about Hamas and its using civilians as human shield?
Well, I believe those seemingly ‘non-slanted’ commentaries are in for a vey careful and systematic pro-Israeli propaganda. The Palestinians or any peoples in the world should not leave their countries because of an imperial power (the Zionists,here) which have shamelessly stolen their land and ethnically cleansed their villages. All these ‘innocent’ comments pale into insignificance in front of Israel’s actions. History’s record tells Israel’s grotesque story. It is not a religious conflict. We all know that too well now. If Hamas or any other ‘resistence’ group chooses to destroy the Zionist entity with its monstorous ideology then it should be encouraged by the international community.
@Zack: They keep sending rockets because they are a useful bargaining chip. Israel has attacked and blockaded Gaza before and this gives groups like Hamas leverage in negotiations
@The Mom: Absorbing nearly 4 million people in one go, especially in this economic climate, is very very difficult. Let’s say Saudi Arabia’s population of around 20 million (not counting the 5 million expats) absorbed 4 million homeless,unemployed Palestinian people. The unemployment rate would sky rocket to around 30% and the Saudi government has trouble finding work for it’s own citizens before! Syria is buckling under the pressure of both Palestinian and Iraqi refugees. Jordan is too poor a country to support them, Egypt’s population is growing so fast the government is losing huge money subsidizing food for it’s people and Lebanon?…..Well, Lebanon has it’s own problems. :(
@Micro: With every post you show your growing ignorance of the conflict. Hamas spends over 90% of it’s income on Social welfare programs, soup kitchens,day care centers,schools,hospitals and sports leagues. When they took over control of the Gaza the BBC correspondents were amazed that people actually stopped at traffic lights because Hamas had instituted law and order.
And you made me laugh when you said ” Israeli went away from Gaza, without being forced, because they want peace with the Palestinians. ” Please. Just wiki or google “Second Intifada” and same me the effort of educating you.
And “take the territories and kick out the people?” Yay! Nazi Germany=Israel confirmed!
@Countrygirl: Read my above post comment to Micro. Hamas spends most of it’s money not on weapons or rockets. But on Schools, Hospitals,Soup Kitchens…ect.
And “Why nobody in the arab world say anything about Hamas and its using civilians as human shield?”
Because Gaza is 138 square miles and has 1.5 million people living in it. It’s one of the most densely populated areas in the world. If I get bombed anywhere in Gaza Israel can say “Look! Mohamed S. is using Palestinians as human shields because he was standing next to this bakery!” just because everything in there is packed in so tight.
Also, for your information, Amnesty international is accusing Israel of using Human shields also.
@Mohamed S
“Absorbing nearly 4 million people in one go, especially in this economic climate, is very very difficult. Let’s say Saudi Arabia’s population of around 20 million (not counting the 5 million expats) absorbed 4 million homeless,unemployed Palestinian people.”
Why don’t we welcome them in our country? what a shame to think this way, Israel welcomes all the Jews around the globe as its national theme says “nefesh yehudi homeya” = “a Jewish soul is yearning” , every Jewish soul yearns to Israel is EASED to come to Israel.
Unemployment exists because our education system SUCKS, not because of the population, Saudi Arabia is a big country that can leverage the educated mentalities from around the Islamic world.
Stop being “RACISTS” and think about others, Stop being “SELFISH”, we just want to live happily ever after even if the rest of our Muslim brothers BURN IN HELL.
Peace,
@Micro: With every post you show your growing ignorance of the conflict. Hamas spends over 90% of it’s income on Social welfare programs, soup kitchens,day care centers,schools,hospitals and sports leagues.
The greenhouses the Jews leaved in Gaza were destroyed. Palestinians could have used them to produce foods and export it. But, as you show, Hamas don’t like people working for themselves and their families; they prefer people depending on them for food, shelter an so on. So they can be manipulated and kept subject to their masters.
ya jama3a ..the problem is not that we as Arabs do not want the Plaestinians in our countries…..this is exactly what the Zionists want and this is what they have been doing all the time since their existence….the policy of forceful immigration by using violience and terror…the massacre in Gaza is no different…they want people to leave ‘ethnic cleansing’…Arab counrties should not allow this and should not host Palestinians. The Zionists do not realise that they are dealing with the wrong kind of people…The Palestinians ask for Shahada and are willing to die defending their deen and Islamic homeland. Many Muslims would do the same. Afterall, they are defending the whole Ummah, we should do the same at least online and in hte media.
I copy here what I wrote to answer to Mom
There are many things about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that are omitted by the MSM.
1) The Muslims consider an independent state of not Muslims in the M.E. an affront to their religion, as any Muslim land (anything ruled by Muslims) can not and must not be surrender to kafirs (impure people). The only place of Jews and Christians is like second class citizen (dhimmi). The status of a dhimmi is comparable to the status of a person “protected” by a mobster or a slave “protected” by his master.
2) Jews lived in Israel by the biblical times. Jerusalem was a city with a majority of Jews before the migration of Zionist Jews from Europe. What changed was the sovereignty of the place, starting with the Babylonians, the Persians, then the Hellenic Kingdoms, Rome, Constantinople, the the Caliphate, then the Crusader’s Kingdoms, then again the Turks Empire and then the UK.
The majority of the Palestinians went to the Palestine during the end of XIX and the start of XX century as migrants from all the M.E. Look at the faces of the Palestinians when they gate in large crowd. You can see there are many people with different skin color.
3) UNO gave a state to the Jews and a state to the palestinians (arabs). But the Arabs refused the partitions and waged war to “throw the Jews in the sea”. They lose the first time, the lose the second time and only the third time Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza and the Golan Heights and Sinai
4) The Golan Height was taken from Syria. The West Bank was taken from Jordanian, the Sinai and Gaza from Egypt.
5) Egypt occupied Gaza in the 1949 like Jordanian occupied the West Bank. When they signed the peace with Israel, Israel gave back the Sinai, but they refuse Gaza and the West Bank because they didn’t want the palestinian.
6) In the 1970, during the Black September, Arafat tried to take overthrow the government of Jordanian. The king and the Army fought back and killed around 3-5.000 Palestinians and force Arafat to flee in Lebanon for his life.
7) After Arafat and his men moved to Lebanon they brought the Lebanon in a civil war lasting ten years and not completely ended until now.
8) When, after the Oslo Israel allowed Arafat back in the West Bank and Gaza, with his men (Fatah), they taken the control of the civilians there and used the schools and the TV to air propaganda and inciting the hate against the Jews. From there the standard of living of the Palestinian in Gaza and the West bank fell because of the attacks and the reactions of the Israelis.
9) in Iraq, the Palestinians are loathed and hated, because many of them used to work for Saddam as enforces.
10 ) the same is true for Iranians, because Khomeini needed to import Fatah people to start the firing squads at the beginning, because Iranians refused to shoot to their countrymen whatever the political differences. After, the Palestinians force the Iranians to shoot in the firing squads or be shot by the firing squads.
11) In the Gulf War, when Iraq invaded Kuwait the Palestinians (Arafat) sided with Saddam Hussein against the Kuwait. Many Palestinians lived in Kuwait for long years before of this. They were kicked out after.
The Arabs and the Muslims in the M.E. will never accept the Palestinians in their middle as peers (this is a Christians things) and they consider them only when they are killed. Given their past, I can not disagree too much with the Arabs on this.
The Arabs kicked out many Jews after the WW2, that were force to go in Israel. But these Jews where accepted and welcomed in Israel, adapted, and thrived. They never are objects of compensation for what they leaved
Someone corrected me a bit:
The UN security council decided in 29 Nov. 1947 to establish 2 NEW states, arabic and jewish, on a area that was not a independent country for thousands of years. The jewish people accepted the “verdict” (although some of them thought it was not fair the arab country was bigger). The arabs, well, as a whole started murderous attacks the very next morning. Nonetheless, The Jewish state was declared 6 month later (may 1948) only on the land the UN declared as belonging to the jewish state. At the same time, 5 arab armies came to fight the new state of ISRAEL (Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq). Thank the lord, Israel won. During these battles Israel conquered areas previously designed by the UN to be in the arab state, but it did not conquer it from the arab state because it was never established – they were conquered from Jordan, Iraq and Egypt. Mind you, that state was never established until 1993, because Jordan and Egypt Liked the remaining areas (called today west bank and Gaza strip) so well they did not allow them to be independent. only after 1988 when Jordan officially removed their claim on the west bank did the Palestinians start to talk with Israel about a independent state and only by a agreement with Israel did they ever establish it.
And MOM,
the refugee camp are kept by the arab roulers to keep the palestinians remember never to stop fighting Israel (that is why they do not have a citizanship in any of the “hosting states” except Jordan. As for the Israeli part, the Israelis (along with foreign aid) built in the seventies (long before the Intifada, when all was well) a new neighborhood in Jericho, right along the refugee camp, to replace it. The palestinians refused, and it is still rotting away there, unoccupied till this day.
More than that – The Palestinians are the only nation on earth having a whole UN organization to themselves (UNRWA) – this organization is financed by the wealthy arab countries to keep the refugee problem alive and well.
@Nuha
The Arabs never gave the Palestinians the ability to live with them as brothers and sisters. They put them is the camps and keep them there. They never gave them the ability to acquire the citizenship.
This is not different than the policies of Saudi Arabia that deny the citizenship to the immigrants and the children of Saudi mothers and aliens.
Would you comment about the establishing of crucifixion in Gaza by Hamas? Saudis have it already.
I’m curious for what crime it is.
Maybe changing religion?
In Israel all the citizen have equal standing. The law is the same for Jews, Muslims and Christians (and atheists). The Arab citizens are able to elect their representatives freely. This can not be said of all other Arabs (apart Iraqis).
About ethnic cleansing, this is a specialty of Arabs.
Look at what Arabs did to Kurds in Iraq. Christians are emigrating away, because they are attacked and discriminate against.
The Jews, after 40 years of “occupations” are lousy ethnic cleanser, if they were not able to clean Gaza and the West Bank.
This is like Hamas talking about an “Holocaust” of Gaza. The time the Jews will do “ethnic cleansing” and “holocaust” over the Palestinians, they will do it in a couple of weeks.
Don’t you find stange that the Egypt border with Gaza is sealed? And don’t you find strange that the main preoccupation of Egypt is to keep it so?
Guys…it seems that the Israelies are so desparate that they started to recruit people for improving their already unravelling ugly truth in the media….It seems views like Micro’s and others are the same Israeli rhetoric of spins and lies on historical events and saddly even on their own people…no wonder Israelies abhor Arabs so much…you can see that on the faces of Zionist settlers near Gaza who smile and cheer when they see Gaza burning…the Israeli society is racist even among its own people.
Yeah…that’s true…The Israeli society is racist…I’m secular …the whole idea of religion is silly….but Jews are racists….I’ve been to Israel and the first thing you are asked is whether you’re a Jew or not then if you’re Ashkenazim or Sephardim…you are always catergorized…even their education is racist…even in the most progressive textbooks..there isn’t a single picture of a Palestinian face…even if they are mentioned they are always represented as a primitive lot ..or a threat to the security ..they are even represented as a problem…so the Israeli child grows up to hate his immediate neighbour…there are no maps showing exactly were Israel is …children are taught that the ‘Land of Israel’ is from Iraq to Egypt…and that present borders with its neighbours are ‘temporary’…well good luck neighbours!
Dave i think you got i wrong it’s the palestinian that theach their kid that Jews are pigs, it’s on the arab text book that Israel isn’t shown, is on muslims kid program that cartoon shows that Jews are pigs…show me a video where a a Jew is cheering for an innocent death…i can show dozen of video where Palestinian cheers for innocent death (Jews)….tell me why then wht Hitler is an hero in many muslim country?
Just watch the following video
Hamas is a bunch of crazy people who worship death……they don’t want peace but only the total extermination of Jews.
Dave in Israel Muslims have the same rights, they are israel citizen, they can vote in a real democracy, tell me how many real democracy are in the arab world-
to Zionist Micro:
Israel is a democratic counrty. I doubt that. Israel is a counrty for the Jews of the world only not for its citizens. Non-Jews are second rate citzens if not no-rate citizens.
I agree that Arab ‘governments’ are corrupt and do horrendous things. I don’t think Arab peoples disagree. The clear demonstrations around the Arab world testify to this. Arab countries like Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia and many others are not democratic simply becasue the people did not choose their leaders. What happens to people in Saudi, Tunisian, or Egyptian prisons is scary (I’m sure the same happens in Israeli prisons, which are the only prisons in the world that are allowed to use torture for interrogation).
Israel is friends with and have relations with countries like Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Tunisia. Tell me who your friends are, I tell you who you are.
We as Arabs acknowledge that our countries are not democratic and that there is a lot to be done. We have a lot of shortcomings. You, on the other hand seem to defend Israel on all levels (how fair and blinded!).
It is only normal that Israel is going to stop being, simply becasue that which is based on wrong can never be right. Live by the sword die by the sword.
I suggest you and others with the same mentality have a talk with yourselves.
@Nuha Arab countries like Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia and many others are not democratic simply becasue the people did not choose their leaders.
This show how much Arabs don’t understand what is “democracy”.
Democracy is not a Tyranny of the majority
I suggest you to read Bastiat, Tocqueville and a few others about liberty and democracy.
I will believe Arabs and Palestinians in particular, are on the same standing of Israel and Jews when I will see them behaving to the same standard of Israel. I saw the video of Palestinian killing and throwing out the bodies of two Israeli soldier that lost themselves and were captured by the PNA police and brought in a police stations. And the killers showing their hands full of blood to a joyful crowd.
I see that homosexual Palestinians run in Israel for safety, so I suppose the Jews are better than Arabs for them.
I see blogger Hossein Derakhshan going in Israel publicly to see with his eyes how Israel is, then Iran Islamic Republic killing him for daring telling what he think and what he saw.
When an earthquake hit Iran (the city of Bam) Israel offered its rescue quads to help the survivors and save them. When is the last time an Arab country offered help to a kafir nation without asking for something? When the tsunami hit Indonesia, all world offered help, but the Arabs were find lacking.
So many rich people, so few money donated.
The same was true for an earthquake in Pakistan.
It is only normal that Israel is going to stop being, simply becasue that which is based on wrong can never be right.
You are right, from evil can not come any good.
But this beg the question:
How much good can be Islam as it come from Mohammad?
Look at his life, what he did, and what his didn’t and ask yourself “Is this the man all humanity must emulate?” Arab are in the mess they are because the follow the example of Mohammad.
Look at Ibn Ishaq’s “Sirat Rasul Allah”
page 515 reads:
“Kinana al-Rabi, who had the custody of the treasure of Banu Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says “was brought”), to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, “Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?” He said “Yes”. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr Al-Awwam, “Torture him until you extract what he has.” So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud.”
Satan did make an offer to Jesus (Isa) that he refused. Mohammed accepted it.
sic transit gloria mundi
Micro
is a very sad person I truly feel bad for you. You should think about getting rid of all that hate in your heart. Try to understan BOTH sides not just yours. I was just stating a FACT. And about ur grandparents story I still don’t understand how that justifies the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land. So basically If someone chooses they want to take over my land I just move on ! thats pretty silly
One more thing, I really don’t see why you must insult prophet Mohammad, it’s really to type Mohammad in Wikipedia… we all know that !
The stridency of the opinions expressed, while perhaps understandable in light of world events, is lamentable.
And insults to the Rasulullah, or to religion, should not occur.
It is only by a dispassionate discussion that good will occur.
Appeals to inflammatory passions will yield no positive results, and will convince no one.
@Andrew
Only liars are insulted by the truth.
My citation is true. If you don’t trust me, look the book at Amazon, and search for “Kinana al-Rabi” at page 515.
Is it the translator, Alfred Guillaume, a liar? Or was Ibn Ishaq a liar?
Mine is a dispassionate discussion as I’m only interested in the truth.
But, about the truth
Qur’an 5:41 “Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them in this world and then torture them in the next.”
The Qur’an says that Allah is the best deceiver, the Lord of Deceit.
How can Muslims believe in a deceivers and be sure not to be deceived by him?
@Lulu
Define Palestinian land, please.
It is Gaza?
It is the West Bank?
It is all Israel?
If it is the first two, Israel left Gaza and will left the West bank as soon as it is sure it will not be attacked from there.
If the Palestinians want a state, they need to take the burden of any state. Absolute control inside their border. If an attack to Israel come from Gaza or West Bank the Palestinians must be the first to shoot the attackers
If they want go at war against Israel, fine.
If they want pay the price and try their luck it is their decision.
But they can not say “it’s not me” when the rocket are launched from their homes and land and do nothing to stop it and cheer when the Israeli die.
In the Gospel Jesus told to cut your hand that sin and throw it in the fire, or all the body will go in Hell with the sinner hand (this is not literal, it is a parable). The case of the Palestinians is not different. Or they cut Hamas and throw it in the fire or they will burn in the fire with Hamas.
But the real question is simple:
Palestinians love their children more than they hate Jews and want their land?
My predictions (worth nothing, for sure) are that a day the Jews of Israel will be sick and tired of this situation. And will solve it like Alexander solved the Gordian Knot.
Harvard’s Stephen Walt puts the Israeli-Palestinian conflect in perspective by proposing a thought experiment.
Imagine that Egypt, Jordan, and Syria had won the Six Day War, leading to a massive exodus of Jews from the territory of Israel. Imagine that the victorious Arab states had eventually decided to permit the Palestinians to establish a state of their own on the territory of the former Jewish state. (That’s unlikely, of course, but this is a thought experiment). Imagine that a million or so Jews had ended up as stateless refugees confined to that narrow enclave known as the Gaza Strip. Then imagine that a group of hardline Orthodox Jews took over control of that territory and organized a resistance movement. They also steadfastly refused to recognize the new Palestinian state, arguing that its creation was illegal and that their expulsion from Israel was unjust. Imagine that they obtained backing from sympathizers around the world and that they began to smuggle weapons into the territory. Then imagine that they started firing at Palestinian towns and villages and refused to stop despite continued reprisals and civilian casualties.
Here’s the question: would the United States be denouncing those Jews in Gaza as “terrorists” and encouraging the Palestinian state to use overwhelming force against them?
Here’s another: would the United States have even allowed such a situation to arise and persist in the first place?
Definitely food for thought.
Mirco,
I would assert a disagreement with you on the point you raise.
Do you truly live by the maxim that “Only liars are insulted by the truth.” is a question to be considered.
When a relative asks you a question about how they look, are you unflinchingly honest and describe all their flaws to them?
If you have had a boss, do you candidly hold forth regarding what you think of his every action?
A movement towards a negotiated settlement of the issues to be negotiated requires that there be a constructive atmosphere.
Moreover, such a movement also requires that one understand what issues are not to be negotiated.
As a Muslim, I would state that Islam is not under negotiation, nor can it be.
The spiritual truths of Islam are NON-negotiable to believers.
However, the items that will have to be negotiated is a series of issues between Palestinians and their opponents.
None of those issues, proposed by either side, is the spiritual truths of any religion whatsoever.
Thus, a strident theological campaign serves no purpose and is rather tiresome.
@Andrew
I try.
If my relatives ask me “How they look”, I tell them what I think. If they ask my opinion they deserve my opinion, not my lies. If they ask the truth, they deserve the truth, not the falsehood.
If my boss ask my opinions I tell them; if I think he asking or doing something wrong I tell my opinions about.
I try to be polite and respectful with all; even the people under me. In fact, you didn’t asked me if I tell what I think to the people under me, only to my peers and to my superiors, so I suppose you don’t mind about feeling of the people under you.
I avoid to speak my mind only with people I know are not interested in listening the truth or my opinions. If they don’t listen, if they react harshly, there is no reason to tell them the truth.
Jesus teach to don’t give pearls to pigs and what is sacred to dogs because they will destroy it and turn against you.
He also teach that your words be “Yes, Yes, No, No. Anything else is from the devil”. Be sincere and clear or stay silent.
A movement towards a negotiated settlement of the issues to be negotiated requires that there be a constructive atmosphere.
A constructive atmosphere need trust.
Trust can not be lasting when the other side cheat me and tell me lies. Trust need years to be build and minutes to be demolished.
The only trust that will be gained tricking others and telling them lies is distrust.
Peace, in this case, can exist only if people have trust they will not be attacked now and in the future. Hamas did a good job building trust with Israel: now Israel can trust Hamas to never stop his attacks, never give up to trying to kill Jews. They trust Hamas to be an implacable mortal enemy. And implacable mortal enemies must only be destroyed before they destroy us.
The spiritual truths of Islam are NON-negotiable to believers.
The problem is that a few of these truths, as I understand them, are the main cause of this war.
Muslims will never give up control of a Muslim controlled land to others. Even after 100 years or 500 or more.
However, the items that will have to be negotiated is a series of issues between Palestinians and their opponents.
It is interesting that you never write their name.
It is ISRAEL.
What can be negotiated if people don’t want or can’t write and speak the name of the other side.
But writing and speaking their name is like admitting their right to exist. And if you don’t admit their right to exist there is nothing that can be really negotiated.
The issues are simple:
1) Palestinians accept the West Bank and Gaza as their land, nothing less, nothing more.
2) They accept ISRAEL, its right to exist and live in peace
3) They stop attacking Israel and Jews and not let anyone to attack Israel from their land (Gaza and West Bank). If someone do it, they stop him with whatever mean needed or help Israel to stop him.
4) Israel do the same with the Palestinians.
Do you think there is something else?
None of those issues, proposed by either side, is the spiritual truths of any religion whatsoever.
Jews consider all the land their, because God give it them forever. But they are willing to share it in peace with the Palestinians.
Are the Arabs able to do the same (sharing the land in peace)?
Peace, and a two state solution it’s the only option. And it could be a gift to the palestenians. They are neigbour to one of the most dynamic societies in the world. Of course the palestinian state is poor, but look at Vietnam, now 30 years after the war, look at the development, of course it’s possible.
Mirco & Country Girl
Please get on a plane, travel to Gaza City, see for yourself the destruction of life, of hope, of homes, of hope and of dignity. Talk to Palestinian families who were starved for 18 months then bombed for three weeks day and night with nowhere to run and noone to ask for help. See how their homeland was turned into a concentration camp and incinerated. Then return to your own safe home and family and re-read some of your comments.
Children of Gaza are well fed.
Look at this video from YouTube : Children of War: Impact on Young Victims in Gaza
They look poor children (but I saw much worst) but They don’t look unfed. They are active.
Also the adult appear well fed and active.
The last video show what happened to the Jews when Germans were leaded by Hitler.
I’m sure Jews will not take a chance that Hamas is able to do the same. Hamas wrote that they want exterminate all Jews (Hitler never was so explicit) and had show they are not kidding.
Palestinians elected Hamas knowing this, so they deserve whatever happen to them. Obviously the children are not guilty of this (they didn’t vote), but their parents are and they are responsible for the mess the children in Gaza are now.
They could have think about the future of their children and choose something other.
I saw a video on YouTube of the Gaza market of the 02 December 2008 (before Hamas provoked the Israel reaction) and it appeared full of food.
It is this, more than others, the fact that put the muslims and many leftists in a bad light. They tell a bunch of lies. If they believe them, they are fools fooled by their propaganda, if they don’t, they are liars.
What peace can exist with fools and liars?
Calling Gaza a “Concentration camp”, speaking about “starving” and so on is reckless and stupid. And it is an affront to the people really starved and put in real “concentration camps”.
“see for yourself the destruction of life, of hope, of homes, of hope and of dignity.”
My parents lived for years in a bombed-out city that suffered the deaths of over 20,000 people and a million homes yet they never felt they lost their dignity. As I see it, Gazans robbed themselves of the dignity the world has been trying to bestow upon them the moment they voted Hamas into power: Hamas vowed to conquer Israel, and they wanted to go along for the ride. Gazans already knew that Hamas used civilians and their buildings to provide cover for military operations. Since widespread destruction of such was the inevitable and predictable result, what, exactly, do Gazans have to complain about?
As for hope: they can vote differently in the next election. Maybe Gazans will vote for someone even more extreme than Hamas, someone who vows that his allies from outer space will zap Israelis with lasers and conquer and loot Israel just for Gazans’ own benefit, as long as they can use Gaza as a base and that Gazans fulfill their will. Or maybe they will vote for someone who vows to use the water pipe and supplies Israel allows in to enhance the water and food supply, rather than build Qassams with the pipe and re-sell the rest outside the Strip for personal profit. Or maybe they will vote for someone who promises to implement transparency to make corruption more difficult.
Unless, of course, the Gazans feel that there won’t be elections any time soon. I would guess that it will be some time before the surviving leaders of Hamas in Gaza dare show themselves outside of their orphanages and hospitals of refuge.
Solomon2:
I have tried very hard not to respond to your post, but my conscience demands better of me.
I am an American of No. European descent and have no particular alliance to any organized religion. So, my opinions and ideas are based more on study and research than on ideology.
Having seen the treatment of Israel of the Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank over the last 30 years, I cannot agree with your assessment. Israel has behaved abominably, particularly during the last 10 years!
Israelis should know better!!!!!
In the late 1980s, I met a Jewish man who showed me the Nazi tattoo on his forearm. You know, tattoo of every Jew consigned to Nazi concentration camps. I listened carefully to everything he told me about the ghetto before his family boarded the train to take them to the camps and his experiences in the camps. All that he experienced sickened me: loss of his entire family to the gas chambers; starvation that ruined his health; non-existent medical care; non-stop 24/7 workdays at hard labor. Any or all of these conditions would have destroyed a weaker child than he was, but his hope in a better future and his belief in God and desire to live kept him alive.
However, what I see today from Israel almost rivals those experiences. How in the name of God can any society who has experienced such grief and pain and horror commit itself to the gross mistreatment of other human beings?
As my friend spoke to me, I saw his eyes sparkle with joy when he talked about the commonality of mankind and the shared truths of all religions. He let go of anger and hatred years ago to focus on the goodness of life and human beings.
His is the lesson that Israelis need to learn. Ghettos, such as Gaza, do nothing to uphold the glory that is Judaism through the pure truths of God.
If Israelis really believe in God – Yhwh – then work for peace, fairness, and equity with Hamas, the PA, and all Palestinians – whether Christian or Muslim – in Gaza, the West Bank and in Jerusalem.
All human beings are precious and must be appreciated and allowed to thrive. Israel must understand this concept if it is to survive.
Mirco:
Your hatred of Islam, the third branch of Yhwh, shames all Jews in the eyes of Elohim.
@Valery Curl
Where do you come with the idea I’m a Jews?
I’m not, but I don’t consider it an insult.
You call yourself “American of No. European descent”; I always amused when American of “any descent” (what is the difference from “race”?) always brag about “racism” in the European or in the white people, when they are the one always talking about it.
You talk about the Shoa, and you compare it to what happened to the Palestinians. Obviously, you are wrong. The Nazi tried to have a “Final Solution” of the “Jewish Problem”.
They killed 2,2 million of people in Auschwitz- Birkenau (2.000 people any and every day, for three years) and more died in many other ways.
Gaza was occupied by Israel for 30 years.
If Israel sought a “Final solution” of the Palestinian problem, the problem would not be there by now. Anything near what the Nazi did to the Jews would have emptied the Gaza Strip in few years. But, as you are so learned in history and analytic, tell me “how is that the Palestinian are not extincted by now?”
Why the Palestinian woman try to go to Israel’s hospitals to deliver?
Why the Palestinians citizen of Israel are able to elect Palestinians in the Knesset?
Why the Palestinians in Israel are able to vote when they can not become citizen of other Arab states? They are forbidden by their brothers to become citizen of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria and so on.
Why Palestinian homosexuals escape in Israel and are helped and sheltered from their brothers that try to kill them?
And, mainly, why I would have sympathy for a religion and a people that want me submitted, killed or converted to Islam? For Hamas, that want conquer Rome and the capitals of Europe before conquering the world (for Islam)?
The Gaza Strip border Egypt. Why Egypt don’t open the border?
They made their bed, they are free to sleep inside.
micro, such intelligent debate. i have never got it why the west doesn’t see what is so obvious;-that the arab states don’t want the palestinians(who are they exactly? isn’t it a made up word by the turkish/ottomans/british) and use them to beat up israel/jews. no one in the arab world wants them , supports them except to use them to beat up west/israel. i thought i was alone in seeing what is glaringly obvious. so much wealth and so little compassion an dwhy do tey love death so much? by the way whats that nonsense about 90% of hamas’s funds going to schools etc…you would have to be b.lind to believe it.
Because we are blinded by political correctness.
That is a tool of the left (and now many muslims) to control what we can say, and with it, what we can think. Obviously, [US] liberalism and leftism in general are a serious mental problem. They think, like the Muslims, that people (the others) can be forced to behave well and be good. They never think that what they do is only to teach that force and violence are right to use against the others that not agree with you.
I always ask what they would say if and when Israel will be sick and tired about the Palestinians and their leadership and their continuous attacks to Israel.
A day, they will succeed to train the Israeli to hate them as they hate the Israeli. Then how they will call what they will receive? Deserved treatment?
I only know that, right or wrong, if my sons and daughters, my family and my friend are in danger I will try to eliminate the danger. With peace, if possible, with war if it is needed.
The majority of the Jews there are born in Israel and the majority of the Palestinians are born outside Israel. If their claims are valid, so are the claim of the Jews that the land was theirs 2500 years ago.
Sounds like Micro is some Serbian asshole who can’t seem to wrap his head around simple facts. This is 2009 not a fairy tale from the Old Testament. Palestinians have every right to defend themselves from invading jewish terrorists. If jews don’t like it, they can end their occupation and stop behaving like terrorists.
If some radical zionist kike showed up at my property with ridiculous claims about owning my land, I’d kick the shit out him and call the police.
Tell the same of the fairytale that the ass-holes of Hamas believe. Stuff like Muslims must convert all the world to Islam with the sword if cheap words are not enough. Or stuff like, “kill the homosexuals” because Mohammad did it.
The MAc, are you from the USA or Canada?
What if a native indians show up ad want his land back and you out? Are you from Australia, what about the aboriginal people?
And the Arabs, would they the give back and the copts? What about the Jews force away from the M.E. where they lived for generations in peace until the XX century? Place like Baghdad, Cairo, Tehran, Tripoli.
Tell the same of the fairytale that the ass-holes of Hamas believe. Stuff like Muslims must convert all the world to Islam with the sword if cheap words are not enough. Or stuff like, “kill the homosexuals” because Mohammad did it.
The MAc, are you from the USA or Canada?
What if a native indians show up ad want his land back and you out? Are you from Australia, what about the aboriginal people?
And the Arabs, would they the give back and the copts? What about the Jews force away from the M.E. where they lived for generations in peace until the XX century? Place like Baghdad, Cairo, Tehran, Tripoli.
The Palestinians can keep Gaza, if they want live in peace with Israel. They, at the end, will don’t keep it, if the want war with Israel.
I don’t live in the West, Micro, so feel free to yank your head out of your gaping asshole and the pretentiousness that came with it.Nice evasion, dickhead but I’m impressed. Israel is a terrorist state, and if you’re in so much love with zionist kikes, by all means give up your property to them, And homosexuals? So you’re a faggot now in addition to being an anti-Arab, anti-Muslim bigot?
The Middle East is not your playground, Serbian jackass. Invade a country and you’ll encounter resistance. Try picking up a history book before vomiting out the usual bullshit zionist talking points. We have no problems with Jews with whom we lived in peace for thousands of years, but we do have a problem with European zionist terrorists. Palestine doesn’t belong to a bunch East European terrorists living in a past that never existed.
Get Ariel Sharon’s nuts off your cheek, you sorry sack of IDF shit.
I love when people show their true colors.
But all your hate will not change a dime.
The oil revenues and the oil industry are alway less relevant. The oil prices are 40$ against 150 of the last year. Saudi Arabia have not the money to subside agriculture, so they need to buy food from abroad; from us, from the kafirs. Iran do the same. Your fertility is falling like a rock. Iran is under replacement, Saudi Arabia will go under replacement when the oil revenues will not be able to buy enough food for the population. And before this there will no be enough money to pay for all the poeple, all the kafirs, working for you. The Indians, the Sri Lankans, the Filipinos, the Europeans and the Americans that make your industry and run them, that are doctors, nurses, clerks and so on.
No money, no party. No Da’Wa, no Jihad.
Oil helped to cushion you from the Future Shock.
No oil, no cushion.
With oil, Israel was able to kick you five times, without oil you have not a chance.
You are all smoke and no fire. Only able to kill unarmed people, but against armed people you are cowards and show how much you are weak.
Microcunt, you’re stupidity and hatred is boring me now. Israel couldn’t wipe its ass without Uncle Sam’s constant infusion of cash and arms. Israel’s military “superiority” is evident when it kills civilians or fights armies using ww1 weapons. We saw how it went down in 2006. Zionist kikes run the US, which is why its going bankrupt and the dollar lying in the sewer. Good fucking riddance I say. As for oil, nothing would make me happier to see it gone. The fall of American sponsored client regimes in the region will be a blessing. No oil also means the end of your fake economies. Not that Slavic shit holes are doing well as it is.
You being a racist genocidal zionist cocksucker is clearly evident. You excuses for radical kikes (“oh we wiped out the Native Americans, so we can wipe out the sand niggers”) reveals the criminality which is inherent in your primitive species. As I told you earlier get Ariel Sharon’s balls of your cheek.
The fall of American sponsored client regimes in the region will be a blessing.
Do you count the Saudi Arabia government as a “Sponsored client regimes”?
The Jordanian government?
The Iraq government?
The Egypt government?
The government of Abu Mazen?
The Pakistan government?
Saudi Jeans
حسبنا الله و نعم الوكيل يا ذا الجلال و العزة
اللهم انقذ المسلمين فى غزة
اللهم كن لهم عونا و نصيرا
اللهم ربنا جل ثناؤك و تقدست اسماؤك
اللهم لا يرد امرك و لا يهزم جندك
سبحانك و بحمدك
اللهم عليك باليهود الظالمين
اللهم منزل الكتاب، هازم الاحزاب، مجرى السحاب
اهزمهم و زلزلهم
اللهم ارينا فيهم عجائب قدرتك.. قتلة الرسل و الانبياء
ظلمة العزل الابرياء
اللهم حرر المسلمين فى غزة يا ذا الجلال و العزة
اللهم فك اسرهم و اشفى مريضهم و اكشف كربتهم
اللهم بدل خوفهم امنا يا ذا الجلال و العزة
اللهم اعز الاسلام و المسلمين و اذل الشرك و المشركين و دمر اعداء الدين و احمى حوزة الاسلام
و اجمع كلمة المسلمين على الحق يا رب العالمين
اللهم انج المستضعفين المسلمين فى كل مكان
اللهم اصلح احوال المسلمين فى فلسطين و العراق و فى كل مكان
اللهم الف بين قلوبهم و اهديهم سبل السلام و اخرجهم من الظلمات الى النور
يا ذا الجلال و الاكرام و العزة*
i am pro-israeli :)
Look at all this misery religion has brought in this part of the world….
Our struggle is not against Jews or Judaism, we co-existed with Jews for more than 14 centuries. Our struggle is against those who took away our homes and expelled unarmed men and women and children.
May God save our children and brothers and sisters against the barbaric genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza.
ya rab an9orhom ya rab
للهم اجمع شملهم ووحد كلمتهم وانصرهم على من عاداهم
اللهم أغث أطفال فلسطين ونساء فلسطين وشيوخ فلسطين يا حي يا قيوم برحمتك نستغيث
اللهم عليك بالصهاينة اليهود الغاصبين اللهم رد كيدهم في نحورهم
Assalamu Alaikum,
Muslims around the world are fasting in solidarity with the people of Gaza until the offensive ends.
It is expected that the offensive is going to continue for another two or three weeks.
As Muslims, we are responsible and will be accountable for what is happening to Muslims (Palestine, Chechnya, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc.) around the globe today.
The least we can do is fast in solidarity.
GAZA SONG: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfhoU66s4Y
Please forward to all Muslims you know, even if you do not agree.
“Our struggle is against those who took away our homes and expelled unarmed men and women and children”. Fair points, I agree with that, but that happened in the 1930s and 1940s. Do you think that today, after more than 70 years, in 2009, launching rockets to Israel and wanting to “throw out to the sea” seven million people will really benefit ordinary Palestinian people? Wake up, don’t get brainwashed by fanatic people driven just by hatred…
we must transfer what is happenning in gaza to people outside the arab world and show them why extremists are beeing more and more
we must transfer what is happenning in gaza to people outside arab world to show them why extremists are beeing more and more
@Zack
The Arabs accepted the Two-State solution when they were summoned in Beirut 2002, but Israel buried that in its cemetery, the Israeli people are the biggest losers in this contest, they will live in an endless circle of “contempt” by their neighbors, and they sealed that by their own hands.
Even the “moderate Arabs” lost their trust due to the clear “bias” to Israel by the United States of America.
And wished if they knew that Muslims would never sabotage the sacred properties in Palestine, since the Muslims hold dear all the traces of David, Solomon, Abraham, Isaac, Jesus Christ and Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon them all) there.
God bless the people of Gaza.
I don’t think anyone forgets thier homeland even after 70 years. Also I would like to remind you that Israel, contrary to common belief has hundreds of ILLEGAL settelments all through out the west bank. It has made palestinians refugees in their own country.
@Tiiu: Saying this is religious shows how little you know of this conflict.
@Zack: Is it strange that fanatics driven by hatred are the result of the Warsaw Ghetto of our times?
This conflict is so extremely complicated but also painfully simple… There are facts and reality: The Israelis are there to stay, the Palestinians are there to stay.
Regardless of what happened 60 years ago and the failures of the international community then, this is how things are now. We will have to find a way to make it work, a two-state solution with equitable land distribution and sovereignty. The Right of Return nonsense has to stop, and so does Israel’s ‘undefined territory.’ (Israel is the only member-state of the UN that has not defined its territory, one of the three main requirements for a state to be considered a state.)
Most importantly, though: the killing has to stop. There is no higher price than the lives of children… That’s killing the future.
@Lulu
People may don’t forget their homeland, but the life must go on.
People in all Europe moved around during and after WW2. Poles, Italians, and many others.
My grandparents were expelled from their home because they lived in Istria then part of Italy now part of Croatia and Slovenia.
They didn’t attack Jugoslavia people. They settled in Italy, formed families, raised babies, and make a life for themselves and their families. And now they are much more rich than palis. And happy. And this without 50 years of UNO money.
But for what do palis combat?
To be governed by scum like Arafat? Mughie? Bashir? Nasrallah?
To be free to crucifix people that change their religion?
Palis (like many arabs) are full of hate and don’t value life. So what they deserve and obtain is death and sorrow.
Mirco,
You need to read a little bit more about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict before you can make assumptions like that. And while I appreciate your grandparent’s story, it doesn’t seem that you have learned much in the way of coexistence and tolerance.
As for your (hateful) comments about Palestinians and Arabs, I see no need in dignifying them.
this is sad
@ Mirco
As we all appreciate your grandparents story, I believe that they would still have a homeland to go home to if they ever CHOSE to… The people of Gaza are trapped with no where to go…
I find it so sad that my father was part of the UN in the 80’s to resolve or bring calm to this situation.. we lived through it with him having moved there.. and still in 2009 there is no resolution..
Shame on the Global community for letting this happen…
All of our Governments are to blame..
I fully agree with Sara, two states with full rights is the only acceptable solutions to this conflict. The problem is: Hamas knows that the Israeli army is far superior than the Palestians in terms of arsenal and technology. Hamas knows that by launching rockets the Israeli will fight back in much larger proportion thus leading to innocent civilians, including children, to die.
So why do they keep launching rockets to Israel after almost 1000 people have been killed already? If It is very sad, but I believe that they don’t care that much about children and other innocents people, they just strumentalise their deaths for their own propaganda…
I would first like to plead at least partial ignorance of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict (war?). That’s why I’m here. I’m seeking information. I know that the media on both sides of this conflict is slanted in their reporting. It is from the people who have lived it and/or lived nearby that we can best find the truth as they see it.
Here is my question: Why are the Palestinians still in refugee camps after 60 years? By that I mean why have no other Arab countries offered them sanctuary? It is not a large number of people compared to the population of Saudi Arabia or Egypt, for example. These countries could easily absorb the additional population. I realize that many might not wish to go, but for those who would like to leave the fighting and raise their children in peace, is there a safe place for them to go. If not, then why not?
The reality of politics in M.E. is that the palis are only a tools for the governments of Arab states to justify their continued existence. What they would do without an enemy to blame for all and any trouble? They would be called to account for their ineptitude.
The same is true for Hamas, that refuse to behave like a responsible government; they are not interested in taking care of their brothers, because they place the destruction of Israel before anything other. They only are interested in the blood of Palestinians when they can use it for the propaganda.
What type of fraternal love is it needed to throw people out of high raise house? Fatah people.
Or to shoot them in the legs, so they can not profit from the Israeli attack against Hamas.
Hamas want the extermination of all Jews in Israel (so they write and tell) because their religion (don’t argue with me that they are wrong, argue with them and with people thinking like them – and act accordingly stopping them).
If you want a lasting peace, you need to kill or neutralize all people willing to fight.
Israeli went away from Gaza, without being forced, because they want peace with the Palestinians. They obtained war, terror and kidnapped people.
I say they are too much civilized. If Palestinians are not willing to live in peace, they can die in war.
And, if Israel can no have peace for territories, I would say they take the territories and kick out the people.
I always read this blog but it’s the first time i’ve ever post something….I’m wondering why nobody said a word in the last 8 years when hamas kept on sending rocket on Israel…just think onliving in a country that is daily is bombed by rocket…I’m wonder does Hamas love his own people? I don’t think so they spnt the money thyreceived in rockets, they sent youth in Israel as human bombs…they could have spent the money for the good of their own people but instead they spent it for destruction? How can Israel have peace with Hamas when in Hamas’ charter is stated that one of its goal is the destruction of Israel?
Why nobody in the arab world say anything about Hamas and its using civilians as human shield?
Well, I believe those seemingly ‘non-slanted’ commentaries are in for a vey careful and systematic pro-Israeli propaganda. The Palestinians or any peoples in the world should not leave their countries because of an imperial power (the Zionists,here) which have shamelessly stolen their land and ethnically cleansed their villages. All these ‘innocent’ comments pale into insignificance in front of Israel’s actions. History’s record tells Israel’s grotesque story. It is not a religious conflict. We all know that too well now. If Hamas or any other ‘resistence’ group chooses to destroy the Zionist entity with its monstorous ideology then it should be encouraged by the international community.
@Zack: They keep sending rockets because they are a useful bargaining chip. Israel has attacked and blockaded Gaza before and this gives groups like Hamas leverage in negotiations
@The Mom: Absorbing nearly 4 million people in one go, especially in this economic climate, is very very difficult. Let’s say Saudi Arabia’s population of around 20 million (not counting the 5 million expats) absorbed 4 million homeless,unemployed Palestinian people. The unemployment rate would sky rocket to around 30% and the Saudi government has trouble finding work for it’s own citizens before! Syria is buckling under the pressure of both Palestinian and Iraqi refugees. Jordan is too poor a country to support them, Egypt’s population is growing so fast the government is losing huge money subsidizing food for it’s people and Lebanon?…..Well, Lebanon has it’s own problems. :(
@Micro: With every post you show your growing ignorance of the conflict. Hamas spends over 90% of it’s income on Social welfare programs, soup kitchens,day care centers,schools,hospitals and sports leagues. When they took over control of the Gaza the BBC correspondents were amazed that people actually stopped at traffic lights because Hamas had instituted law and order.
And you made me laugh when you said ” Israeli went away from Gaza, without being forced, because they want peace with the Palestinians. ” Please. Just wiki or google “Second Intifada” and same me the effort of educating you.
And “take the territories and kick out the people?” Yay! Nazi Germany=Israel confirmed!
@Countrygirl: Read my above post comment to Micro. Hamas spends most of it’s money not on weapons or rockets. But on Schools, Hospitals,Soup Kitchens…ect.
And “Why nobody in the arab world say anything about Hamas and its using civilians as human shield?”
Because Gaza is 138 square miles and has 1.5 million people living in it. It’s one of the most densely populated areas in the world. If I get bombed anywhere in Gaza Israel can say “Look! Mohamed S. is using Palestinians as human shields because he was standing next to this bakery!” just because everything in there is packed in so tight.
Also, for your information, Amnesty international is accusing Israel of using Human shields also.
@Mohamed S
“Absorbing nearly 4 million people in one go, especially in this economic climate, is very very difficult. Let’s say Saudi Arabia’s population of around 20 million (not counting the 5 million expats) absorbed 4 million homeless,unemployed Palestinian people.”
Why don’t we welcome them in our country? what a shame to think this way, Israel welcomes all the Jews around the globe as its national theme says “nefesh yehudi homeya” = “a Jewish soul is yearning” , every Jewish soul yearns to Israel is EASED to come to Israel.
Unemployment exists because our education system SUCKS, not because of the population, Saudi Arabia is a big country that can leverage the educated mentalities from around the Islamic world.
Stop being “RACISTS” and think about others, Stop being “SELFISH”, we just want to live happily ever after even if the rest of our Muslim brothers BURN IN HELL.
Peace,
@Micro: With every post you show your growing ignorance of the conflict. Hamas spends over 90% of it’s income on Social welfare programs, soup kitchens,day care centers,schools,hospitals and sports leagues.
The greenhouses the Jews leaved in Gaza were destroyed. Palestinians could have used them to produce foods and export it. But, as you show, Hamas don’t like people working for themselves and their families; they prefer people depending on them for food, shelter an so on. So they can be manipulated and kept subject to their masters.
ya jama3a ..the problem is not that we as Arabs do not want the Plaestinians in our countries…..this is exactly what the Zionists want and this is what they have been doing all the time since their existence….the policy of forceful immigration by using violience and terror…the massacre in Gaza is no different…they want people to leave ‘ethnic cleansing’…Arab counrties should not allow this and should not host Palestinians. The Zionists do not realise that they are dealing with the wrong kind of people…The Palestinians ask for Shahada and are willing to die defending their deen and Islamic homeland. Many Muslims would do the same. Afterall, they are defending the whole Ummah, we should do the same at least online and in hte media.
I copy here what I wrote to answer to Mom
There are many things about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that are omitted by the MSM.
1) The Muslims consider an independent state of not Muslims in the M.E. an affront to their religion, as any Muslim land (anything ruled by Muslims) can not and must not be surrender to kafirs (impure people). The only place of Jews and Christians is like second class citizen (dhimmi). The status of a dhimmi is comparable to the status of a person “protected” by a mobster or a slave “protected” by his master.
2) Jews lived in Israel by the biblical times. Jerusalem was a city with a majority of Jews before the migration of Zionist Jews from Europe. What changed was the sovereignty of the place, starting with the Babylonians, the Persians, then the Hellenic Kingdoms, Rome, Constantinople, the the Caliphate, then the Crusader’s Kingdoms, then again the Turks Empire and then the UK.
The majority of the Palestinians went to the Palestine during the end of XIX and the start of XX century as migrants from all the M.E. Look at the faces of the Palestinians when they gate in large crowd. You can see there are many people with different skin color.
3) UNO gave a state to the Jews and a state to the palestinians (arabs). But the Arabs refused the partitions and waged war to “throw the Jews in the sea”. They lose the first time, the lose the second time and only the third time Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza and the Golan Heights and Sinai
4) The Golan Height was taken from Syria. The West Bank was taken from Jordanian, the Sinai and Gaza from Egypt.
5) Egypt occupied Gaza in the 1949 like Jordanian occupied the West Bank. When they signed the peace with Israel, Israel gave back the Sinai, but they refuse Gaza and the West Bank because they didn’t want the palestinian.
6) In the 1970, during the Black September, Arafat tried to take overthrow the government of Jordanian. The king and the Army fought back and killed around 3-5.000 Palestinians and force Arafat to flee in Lebanon for his life.
7) After Arafat and his men moved to Lebanon they brought the Lebanon in a civil war lasting ten years and not completely ended until now.
8) When, after the Oslo Israel allowed Arafat back in the West Bank and Gaza, with his men (Fatah), they taken the control of the civilians there and used the schools and the TV to air propaganda and inciting the hate against the Jews. From there the standard of living of the Palestinian in Gaza and the West bank fell because of the attacks and the reactions of the Israelis.
9) in Iraq, the Palestinians are loathed and hated, because many of them used to work for Saddam as enforces.
10 ) the same is true for Iranians, because Khomeini needed to import Fatah people to start the firing squads at the beginning, because Iranians refused to shoot to their countrymen whatever the political differences. After, the Palestinians force the Iranians to shoot in the firing squads or be shot by the firing squads.
11) In the Gulf War, when Iraq invaded Kuwait the Palestinians (Arafat) sided with Saddam Hussein against the Kuwait. Many Palestinians lived in Kuwait for long years before of this. They were kicked out after.
The Arabs and the Muslims in the M.E. will never accept the Palestinians in their middle as peers (this is a Christians things) and they consider them only when they are killed. Given their past, I can not disagree too much with the Arabs on this.
The Arabs kicked out many Jews after the WW2, that were force to go in Israel. But these Jews where accepted and welcomed in Israel, adapted, and thrived. They never are objects of compensation for what they leaved
Someone corrected me a bit:
The UN security council decided in 29 Nov. 1947 to establish 2 NEW states, arabic and jewish, on a area that was not a independent country for thousands of years. The jewish people accepted the “verdict” (although some of them thought it was not fair the arab country was bigger). The arabs, well, as a whole started murderous attacks the very next morning. Nonetheless, The Jewish state was declared 6 month later (may 1948) only on the land the UN declared as belonging to the jewish state. At the same time, 5 arab armies came to fight the new state of ISRAEL (Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq). Thank the lord, Israel won. During these battles Israel conquered areas previously designed by the UN to be in the arab state, but it did not conquer it from the arab state because it was never established – they were conquered from Jordan, Iraq and Egypt. Mind you, that state was never established until 1993, because Jordan and Egypt Liked the remaining areas (called today west bank and Gaza strip) so well they did not allow them to be independent. only after 1988 when Jordan officially removed their claim on the west bank did the Palestinians start to talk with Israel about a independent state and only by a agreement with Israel did they ever establish it.
And MOM,
the refugee camp are kept by the arab roulers to keep the palestinians remember never to stop fighting Israel (that is why they do not have a citizanship in any of the “hosting states” except Jordan. As for the Israeli part, the Israelis (along with foreign aid) built in the seventies (long before the Intifada, when all was well) a new neighborhood in Jericho, right along the refugee camp, to replace it. The palestinians refused, and it is still rotting away there, unoccupied till this day.
More than that – The Palestinians are the only nation on earth having a whole UN organization to themselves (UNRWA) – this organization is financed by the wealthy arab countries to keep the refugee problem alive and well.
@Nuha
The Arabs never gave the Palestinians the ability to live with them as brothers and sisters. They put them is the camps and keep them there. They never gave them the ability to acquire the citizenship.
This is not different than the policies of Saudi Arabia that deny the citizenship to the immigrants and the children of Saudi mothers and aliens.
Would you comment about the establishing of crucifixion in Gaza by Hamas? Saudis have it already.
I’m curious for what crime it is.
Maybe changing religion?
In Israel all the citizen have equal standing. The law is the same for Jews, Muslims and Christians (and atheists). The Arab citizens are able to elect their representatives freely. This can not be said of all other Arabs (apart Iraqis).
About ethnic cleansing, this is a specialty of Arabs.
Look at what Arabs did to Kurds in Iraq. Christians are emigrating away, because they are attacked and discriminate against.
The Jews, after 40 years of “occupations” are lousy ethnic cleanser, if they were not able to clean Gaza and the West Bank.
This is like Hamas talking about an “Holocaust” of Gaza. The time the Jews will do “ethnic cleansing” and “holocaust” over the Palestinians, they will do it in a couple of weeks.
Don’t you find stange that the Egypt border with Gaza is sealed? And don’t you find strange that the main preoccupation of Egypt is to keep it so?
Guys…it seems that the Israelies are so desparate that they started to recruit people for improving their already unravelling ugly truth in the media….It seems views like Micro’s and others are the same Israeli rhetoric of spins and lies on historical events and saddly even on their own people…no wonder Israelies abhor Arabs so much…you can see that on the faces of Zionist settlers near Gaza who smile and cheer when they see Gaza burning…the Israeli society is racist even among its own people.
Yeah…that’s true…The Israeli society is racist…I’m secular …the whole idea of religion is silly….but Jews are racists….I’ve been to Israel and the first thing you are asked is whether you’re a Jew or not then if you’re Ashkenazim or Sephardim…you are always catergorized…even their education is racist…even in the most progressive textbooks..there isn’t a single picture of a Palestinian face…even if they are mentioned they are always represented as a primitive lot ..or a threat to the security ..they are even represented as a problem…so the Israeli child grows up to hate his immediate neighbour…there are no maps showing exactly were Israel is …children are taught that the ‘Land of Israel’ is from Iraq to Egypt…and that present borders with its neighbours are ‘temporary’…well good luck neighbours!
Dave i think you got i wrong it’s the palestinian that theach their kid that Jews are pigs, it’s on the arab text book that Israel isn’t shown, is on muslims kid program that cartoon shows that Jews are pigs…show me a video where a a Jew is cheering for an innocent death…i can show dozen of video where Palestinian cheers for innocent death (Jews)….tell me why then wht Hitler is an hero in many muslim country?
Just watch the following video
Hamas is a bunch of crazy people who worship death……they don’t want peace but only the total extermination of Jews.
Dave in Israel Muslims have the same rights, they are israel citizen, they can vote in a real democracy, tell me how many real democracy are in the arab world-
to Zionist Micro:
Israel is a democratic counrty. I doubt that. Israel is a counrty for the Jews of the world only not for its citizens. Non-Jews are second rate citzens if not no-rate citizens.
I agree that Arab ‘governments’ are corrupt and do horrendous things. I don’t think Arab peoples disagree. The clear demonstrations around the Arab world testify to this. Arab countries like Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia and many others are not democratic simply becasue the people did not choose their leaders. What happens to people in Saudi, Tunisian, or Egyptian prisons is scary (I’m sure the same happens in Israeli prisons, which are the only prisons in the world that are allowed to use torture for interrogation).
Israel is friends with and have relations with countries like Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Tunisia. Tell me who your friends are, I tell you who you are.
We as Arabs acknowledge that our countries are not democratic and that there is a lot to be done. We have a lot of shortcomings. You, on the other hand seem to defend Israel on all levels (how fair and blinded!).
It is only normal that Israel is going to stop being, simply becasue that which is based on wrong can never be right. Live by the sword die by the sword.
I suggest you and others with the same mentality have a talk with yourselves.
Please share and spread in KSA:
نداء إلى المملكة العربية السعودية والملك عبد الله بن عبد العزيز
@Nuha
Arab countries like Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia and many others are not democratic simply becasue the people did not choose their leaders.
This show how much Arabs don’t understand what is “democracy”.
Democracy is not a Tyranny of the majority
I suggest you to read Bastiat, Tocqueville and a few others about liberty and democracy.
I will believe Arabs and Palestinians in particular, are on the same standing of Israel and Jews when I will see them behaving to the same standard of Israel. I saw the video of Palestinian killing and throwing out the bodies of two Israeli soldier that lost themselves and were captured by the PNA police and brought in a police stations. And the killers showing their hands full of blood to a joyful crowd.
I see that homosexual Palestinians run in Israel for safety, so I suppose the Jews are better than Arabs for them.
I see blogger Hossein Derakhshan going in Israel publicly to see with his eyes how Israel is, then Iran Islamic Republic killing him for daring telling what he think and what he saw.
When an earthquake hit Iran (the city of Bam) Israel offered its rescue quads to help the survivors and save them. When is the last time an Arab country offered help to a kafir nation without asking for something? When the tsunami hit Indonesia, all world offered help, but the Arabs were find lacking.
So many rich people, so few money donated.
The same was true for an earthquake in Pakistan.
It is only normal that Israel is going to stop being, simply becasue that which is based on wrong can never be right.
You are right, from evil can not come any good.
But this beg the question:
How much good can be Islam as it come from Mohammad?
Look at his life, what he did, and what his didn’t and ask yourself “Is this the man all humanity must emulate?” Arab are in the mess they are because the follow the example of Mohammad.
Look at Ibn Ishaq’s “Sirat Rasul Allah”
page 515 reads:
“Kinana al-Rabi, who had the custody of the treasure of Banu Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says “was brought”), to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, “Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?” He said “Yes”. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr Al-Awwam, “Torture him until you extract what he has.” So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud.”
Satan did make an offer to Jesus (Isa) that he refused. Mohammed accepted it.
sic transit gloria mundi
Micro
is a very sad person I truly feel bad for you. You should think about getting rid of all that hate in your heart. Try to understan BOTH sides not just yours. I was just stating a FACT. And about ur grandparents story I still don’t understand how that justifies the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land. So basically If someone chooses they want to take over my land I just move on ! thats pretty silly
One more thing, I really don’t see why you must insult prophet Mohammad, it’s really to type Mohammad in Wikipedia… we all know that !
The stridency of the opinions expressed, while perhaps understandable in light of world events, is lamentable.
And insults to the Rasulullah, or to religion, should not occur.
It is only by a dispassionate discussion that good will occur.
Appeals to inflammatory passions will yield no positive results, and will convince no one.
@Andrew
Only liars are insulted by the truth.
My citation is true. If you don’t trust me, look the book at Amazon, and search for “Kinana al-Rabi” at page 515.
Is it the translator, Alfred Guillaume, a liar? Or was Ibn Ishaq a liar?
Mine is a dispassionate discussion as I’m only interested in the truth.
But, about the truth
Qur’an 5:41 “Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them in this world and then torture them in the next.”
The Qur’an says that Allah is the best deceiver, the Lord of Deceit.
In Arabic: Wa Makaru wa makara Allah wa Allah Amkaru al Makireen.
We Westerns and Christians know the name of the Lord of Deceit and it is not God. There is a prayer to keep it away: Prayer Against Satan and the Rebellious Angels
How can Muslims believe in a deceivers and be sure not to be deceived by him?
@Lulu
Define Palestinian land, please.
It is Gaza?
It is the West Bank?
It is all Israel?
If it is the first two, Israel left Gaza and will left the West bank as soon as it is sure it will not be attacked from there.
If the Palestinians want a state, they need to take the burden of any state. Absolute control inside their border. If an attack to Israel come from Gaza or West Bank the Palestinians must be the first to shoot the attackers
If they want go at war against Israel, fine.
If they want pay the price and try their luck it is their decision.
But they can not say “it’s not me” when the rocket are launched from their homes and land and do nothing to stop it and cheer when the Israeli die.
In the Gospel Jesus told to cut your hand that sin and throw it in the fire, or all the body will go in Hell with the sinner hand (this is not literal, it is a parable). The case of the Palestinians is not different. Or they cut Hamas and throw it in the fire or they will burn in the fire with Hamas.
But the real question is simple:
Palestinians love their children more than they hate Jews and want their land?
My predictions (worth nothing, for sure) are that a day the Jews of Israel will be sick and tired of this situation. And will solve it like Alexander solved the Gordian Knot.
The following came from Foreign Policy Magazine (http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/node/10732).
Harvard’s Stephen Walt puts the Israeli-Palestinian conflect in perspective by proposing a thought experiment.
Imagine that Egypt, Jordan, and Syria had won the Six Day War, leading to a massive exodus of Jews from the territory of Israel. Imagine that the victorious Arab states had eventually decided to permit the Palestinians to establish a state of their own on the territory of the former Jewish state. (That’s unlikely, of course, but this is a thought experiment). Imagine that a million or so Jews had ended up as stateless refugees confined to that narrow enclave known as the Gaza Strip. Then imagine that a group of hardline Orthodox Jews took over control of that territory and organized a resistance movement. They also steadfastly refused to recognize the new Palestinian state, arguing that its creation was illegal and that their expulsion from Israel was unjust. Imagine that they obtained backing from sympathizers around the world and that they began to smuggle weapons into the territory. Then imagine that they started firing at Palestinian towns and villages and refused to stop despite continued reprisals and civilian casualties.
Here’s the question: would the United States be denouncing those Jews in Gaza as “terrorists” and encouraging the Palestinian state to use overwhelming force against them?
Here’s another: would the United States have even allowed such a situation to arise and persist in the first place?
Definitely food for thought.
Mirco,
I would assert a disagreement with you on the point you raise.
Do you truly live by the maxim that “Only liars are insulted by the truth.” is a question to be considered.
When a relative asks you a question about how they look, are you unflinchingly honest and describe all their flaws to them?
If you have had a boss, do you candidly hold forth regarding what you think of his every action?
A movement towards a negotiated settlement of the issues to be negotiated requires that there be a constructive atmosphere.
Moreover, such a movement also requires that one understand what issues are not to be negotiated.
As a Muslim, I would state that Islam is not under negotiation, nor can it be.
The spiritual truths of Islam are NON-negotiable to believers.
However, the items that will have to be negotiated is a series of issues between Palestinians and their opponents.
None of those issues, proposed by either side, is the spiritual truths of any religion whatsoever.
Thus, a strident theological campaign serves no purpose and is rather tiresome.
@Andrew
I try.
If my relatives ask me “How they look”, I tell them what I think. If they ask my opinion they deserve my opinion, not my lies. If they ask the truth, they deserve the truth, not the falsehood.
If my boss ask my opinions I tell them; if I think he asking or doing something wrong I tell my opinions about.
I try to be polite and respectful with all; even the people under me. In fact, you didn’t asked me if I tell what I think to the people under me, only to my peers and to my superiors, so I suppose you don’t mind about feeling of the people under you.
I avoid to speak my mind only with people I know are not interested in listening the truth or my opinions. If they don’t listen, if they react harshly, there is no reason to tell them the truth.
Jesus teach to don’t give pearls to pigs and what is sacred to dogs because they will destroy it and turn against you.
He also teach that your words be “Yes, Yes, No, No. Anything else is from the devil”. Be sincere and clear or stay silent.
A movement towards a negotiated settlement of the issues to be negotiated requires that there be a constructive atmosphere.
A constructive atmosphere need trust.
Trust can not be lasting when the other side cheat me and tell me lies. Trust need years to be build and minutes to be demolished.
The only trust that will be gained tricking others and telling them lies is distrust.
Peace, in this case, can exist only if people have trust they will not be attacked now and in the future. Hamas did a good job building trust with Israel: now Israel can trust Hamas to never stop his attacks, never give up to trying to kill Jews. They trust Hamas to be an implacable mortal enemy. And implacable mortal enemies must only be destroyed before they destroy us.
The spiritual truths of Islam are NON-negotiable to believers.
The problem is that a few of these truths, as I understand them, are the main cause of this war.
Muslims will never give up control of a Muslim controlled land to others. Even after 100 years or 500 or more.
However, the items that will have to be negotiated is a series of issues between Palestinians and their opponents.
It is interesting that you never write their name.
It is ISRAEL.
What can be negotiated if people don’t want or can’t write and speak the name of the other side.
But writing and speaking their name is like admitting their right to exist. And if you don’t admit their right to exist there is nothing that can be really negotiated.
The issues are simple:
1) Palestinians accept the West Bank and Gaza as their land, nothing less, nothing more.
2) They accept ISRAEL, its right to exist and live in peace
3) They stop attacking Israel and Jews and not let anyone to attack Israel from their land (Gaza and West Bank). If someone do it, they stop him with whatever mean needed or help Israel to stop him.
4) Israel do the same with the Palestinians.
Do you think there is something else?
None of those issues, proposed by either side, is the spiritual truths of any religion whatsoever.
Jews consider all the land their, because God give it them forever. But they are willing to share it in peace with the Palestinians.
Are the Arabs able to do the same (sharing the land in peace)?
Peace, and a two state solution it’s the only option. And it could be a gift to the palestenians. They are neigbour to one of the most dynamic societies in the world. Of course the palestinian state is poor, but look at Vietnam, now 30 years after the war, look at the development, of course it’s possible.
Mirco & Country Girl
Please get on a plane, travel to Gaza City, see for yourself the destruction of life, of hope, of homes, of hope and of dignity. Talk to Palestinian families who were starved for 18 months then bombed for three weeks day and night with nowhere to run and noone to ask for help. See how their homeland was turned into a concentration camp and incinerated. Then return to your own safe home and family and re-read some of your comments.
Children of Gaza are well fed.
Look at this video from YouTube : Children of War: Impact on Young Victims in Gaza
They look poor children (but I saw much worst) but They don’t look unfed. They are active.
Also the adult appear well fed and active.
Do you want to see how people in a “Concentration Camp” look?
This is Bosnia
And this is Auschwitz- Birkenau
The last video show what happened to the Jews when Germans were leaded by Hitler.
I’m sure Jews will not take a chance that Hamas is able to do the same. Hamas wrote that they want exterminate all Jews (Hitler never was so explicit) and had show they are not kidding.
Palestinians elected Hamas knowing this, so they deserve whatever happen to them. Obviously the children are not guilty of this (they didn’t vote), but their parents are and they are responsible for the mess the children in Gaza are now.
They could have think about the future of their children and choose something other.
I saw a video on YouTube of the Gaza market of the 02 December 2008 (before Hamas provoked the Israel reaction) and it appeared full of food.
It is this, more than others, the fact that put the muslims and many leftists in a bad light. They tell a bunch of lies. If they believe them, they are fools fooled by their propaganda, if they don’t, they are liars.
What peace can exist with fools and liars?
Calling Gaza a “Concentration camp”, speaking about “starving” and so on is reckless and stupid. And it is an affront to the people really starved and put in real “concentration camps”.
“see for yourself the destruction of life, of hope, of homes, of hope and of dignity.”
My parents lived for years in a bombed-out city that suffered the deaths of over 20,000 people and a million homes yet they never felt they lost their dignity. As I see it, Gazans robbed themselves of the dignity the world has been trying to bestow upon them the moment they voted Hamas into power: Hamas vowed to conquer Israel, and they wanted to go along for the ride. Gazans already knew that Hamas used civilians and their buildings to provide cover for military operations. Since widespread destruction of such was the inevitable and predictable result, what, exactly, do Gazans have to complain about?
As for hope: they can vote differently in the next election. Maybe Gazans will vote for someone even more extreme than Hamas, someone who vows that his allies from outer space will zap Israelis with lasers and conquer and loot Israel just for Gazans’ own benefit, as long as they can use Gaza as a base and that Gazans fulfill their will. Or maybe they will vote for someone who vows to use the water pipe and supplies Israel allows in to enhance the water and food supply, rather than build Qassams with the pipe and re-sell the rest outside the Strip for personal profit. Or maybe they will vote for someone who promises to implement transparency to make corruption more difficult.
Unless, of course, the Gazans feel that there won’t be elections any time soon. I would guess that it will be some time before the surviving leaders of Hamas in Gaza dare show themselves outside of their orphanages and hospitals of refuge.
Solomon2:
I have tried very hard not to respond to your post, but my conscience demands better of me.
I am an American of No. European descent and have no particular alliance to any organized religion. So, my opinions and ideas are based more on study and research than on ideology.
Having seen the treatment of Israel of the Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank over the last 30 years, I cannot agree with your assessment. Israel has behaved abominably, particularly during the last 10 years!
Israelis should know better!!!!!
In the late 1980s, I met a Jewish man who showed me the Nazi tattoo on his forearm. You know, tattoo of every Jew consigned to Nazi concentration camps. I listened carefully to everything he told me about the ghetto before his family boarded the train to take them to the camps and his experiences in the camps. All that he experienced sickened me: loss of his entire family to the gas chambers; starvation that ruined his health; non-existent medical care; non-stop 24/7 workdays at hard labor. Any or all of these conditions would have destroyed a weaker child than he was, but his hope in a better future and his belief in God and desire to live kept him alive.
However, what I see today from Israel almost rivals those experiences. How in the name of God can any society who has experienced such grief and pain and horror commit itself to the gross mistreatment of other human beings?
As my friend spoke to me, I saw his eyes sparkle with joy when he talked about the commonality of mankind and the shared truths of all religions. He let go of anger and hatred years ago to focus on the goodness of life and human beings.
His is the lesson that Israelis need to learn. Ghettos, such as Gaza, do nothing to uphold the glory that is Judaism through the pure truths of God.
If Israelis really believe in God – Yhwh – then work for peace, fairness, and equity with Hamas, the PA, and all Palestinians – whether Christian or Muslim – in Gaza, the West Bank and in Jerusalem.
All human beings are precious and must be appreciated and allowed to thrive. Israel must understand this concept if it is to survive.
Mirco:
Your hatred of Islam, the third branch of Yhwh, shames all Jews in the eyes of Elohim.
@Valery Curl
Where do you come with the idea I’m a Jews?
I’m not, but I don’t consider it an insult.
You call yourself “American of No. European descent”; I always amused when American of “any descent” (what is the difference from “race”?) always brag about “racism” in the European or in the white people, when they are the one always talking about it.
You talk about the Shoa, and you compare it to what happened to the Palestinians. Obviously, you are wrong. The Nazi tried to have a “Final Solution” of the “Jewish Problem”.
They killed 2,2 million of people in Auschwitz- Birkenau (2.000 people any and every day, for three years) and more died in many other ways.
Gaza was occupied by Israel for 30 years.
If Israel sought a “Final solution” of the Palestinian problem, the problem would not be there by now. Anything near what the Nazi did to the Jews would have emptied the Gaza Strip in few years. But, as you are so learned in history and analytic, tell me “how is that the Palestinian are not extincted by now?”
Why the Palestinian woman try to go to Israel’s hospitals to deliver?
Why the Palestinians citizen of Israel are able to elect Palestinians in the Knesset?
Why the Palestinians in Israel are able to vote when they can not become citizen of other Arab states? They are forbidden by their brothers to become citizen of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria and so on.
Why Palestinian homosexuals escape in Israel and are helped and sheltered from their brothers that try to kill them?
And, mainly, why I would have sympathy for a religion and a people that want me submitted, killed or converted to Islam? For Hamas, that want conquer Rome and the capitals of Europe before conquering the world (for Islam)?
The Gaza Strip border Egypt. Why Egypt don’t open the border?
They made their bed, they are free to sleep inside.
micro, such intelligent debate. i have never got it why the west doesn’t see what is so obvious;-that the arab states don’t want the palestinians(who are they exactly? isn’t it a made up word by the turkish/ottomans/british) and use them to beat up israel/jews. no one in the arab world wants them , supports them except to use them to beat up west/israel. i thought i was alone in seeing what is glaringly obvious. so much wealth and so little compassion an dwhy do tey love death so much? by the way whats that nonsense about 90% of hamas’s funds going to schools etc…you would have to be b.lind to believe it.
Because we are blinded by political correctness.
That is a tool of the left (and now many muslims) to control what we can say, and with it, what we can think. Obviously, [US] liberalism and leftism in general are a serious mental problem. They think, like the Muslims, that people (the others) can be forced to behave well and be good. They never think that what they do is only to teach that force and violence are right to use against the others that not agree with you.
I always ask what they would say if and when Israel will be sick and tired about the Palestinians and their leadership and their continuous attacks to Israel.
A day, they will succeed to train the Israeli to hate them as they hate the Israeli. Then how they will call what they will receive? Deserved treatment?
I only know that, right or wrong, if my sons and daughters, my family and my friend are in danger I will try to eliminate the danger. With peace, if possible, with war if it is needed.
The majority of the Jews there are born in Israel and the majority of the Palestinians are born outside Israel. If their claims are valid, so are the claim of the Jews that the land was theirs 2500 years ago.
Sounds like Micro is some Serbian asshole who can’t seem to wrap his head around simple facts. This is 2009 not a fairy tale from the Old Testament. Palestinians have every right to defend themselves from invading jewish terrorists. If jews don’t like it, they can end their occupation and stop behaving like terrorists.
If some radical zionist kike showed up at my property with ridiculous claims about owning my land, I’d kick the shit out him and call the police.
Tell the same of the fairytale that the ass-holes of Hamas believe. Stuff like Muslims must convert all the world to Islam with the sword if cheap words are not enough. Or stuff like, “kill the homosexuals” because Mohammad did it.
The MAc, are you from the USA or Canada?
What if a native indians show up ad want his land back and you out? Are you from Australia, what about the aboriginal people?
And the Arabs, would they the give back and the copts? What about the Jews force away from the M.E. where they lived for generations in peace until the XX century? Place like Baghdad, Cairo, Tehran, Tripoli.
Tell the same of the fairytale that the ass-holes of Hamas believe. Stuff like Muslims must convert all the world to Islam with the sword if cheap words are not enough. Or stuff like, “kill the homosexuals” because Mohammad did it.
The MAc, are you from the USA or Canada?
What if a native indians show up ad want his land back and you out? Are you from Australia, what about the aboriginal people?
And the Arabs, would they the give back and the copts? What about the Jews force away from the M.E. where they lived for generations in peace until the XX century? Place like Baghdad, Cairo, Tehran, Tripoli.
The Palestinians can keep Gaza, if they want live in peace with Israel. They, at the end, will don’t keep it, if the want war with Israel.
I don’t live in the West, Micro, so feel free to yank your head out of your gaping asshole and the pretentiousness that came with it.Nice evasion, dickhead but I’m impressed. Israel is a terrorist state, and if you’re in so much love with zionist kikes, by all means give up your property to them, And homosexuals? So you’re a faggot now in addition to being an anti-Arab, anti-Muslim bigot?
The Middle East is not your playground, Serbian jackass. Invade a country and you’ll encounter resistance. Try picking up a history book before vomiting out the usual bullshit zionist talking points. We have no problems with Jews with whom we lived in peace for thousands of years, but we do have a problem with European zionist terrorists. Palestine doesn’t belong to a bunch East European terrorists living in a past that never existed.
Get Ariel Sharon’s nuts off your cheek, you sorry sack of IDF shit.
I love when people show their true colors.
But all your hate will not change a dime.
The oil revenues and the oil industry are alway less relevant. The oil prices are 40$ against 150 of the last year. Saudi Arabia have not the money to subside agriculture, so they need to buy food from abroad; from us, from the kafirs. Iran do the same. Your fertility is falling like a rock. Iran is under replacement, Saudi Arabia will go under replacement when the oil revenues will not be able to buy enough food for the population. And before this there will no be enough money to pay for all the poeple, all the kafirs, working for you. The Indians, the Sri Lankans, the Filipinos, the Europeans and the Americans that make your industry and run them, that are doctors, nurses, clerks and so on.
No money, no party. No Da’Wa, no Jihad.
Oil helped to cushion you from the Future Shock.
No oil, no cushion.
With oil, Israel was able to kick you five times, without oil you have not a chance.
You are all smoke and no fire. Only able to kill unarmed people, but against armed people you are cowards and show how much you are weak.
Microcunt, you’re stupidity and hatred is boring me now. Israel couldn’t wipe its ass without Uncle Sam’s constant infusion of cash and arms. Israel’s military “superiority” is evident when it kills civilians or fights armies using ww1 weapons. We saw how it went down in 2006. Zionist kikes run the US, which is why its going bankrupt and the dollar lying in the sewer. Good fucking riddance I say. As for oil, nothing would make me happier to see it gone. The fall of American sponsored client regimes in the region will be a blessing. No oil also means the end of your fake economies. Not that Slavic shit holes are doing well as it is.
You being a racist genocidal zionist cocksucker is clearly evident. You excuses for radical kikes (“oh we wiped out the Native Americans, so we can wipe out the sand niggers”) reveals the criminality which is inherent in your primitive species. As I told you earlier get Ariel Sharon’s balls of your cheek.
The fall of American sponsored client regimes in the region will be a blessing.
Do you count the Saudi Arabia government as a “Sponsored client regimes”?
The Jordanian government?
The Iraq government?
The Egypt government?
The government of Abu Mazen?
The Pakistan government?
In answer to all your questions, Microcunt :
Hell yes.
thankx