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	<title>Comments on: Rights: Home and Abroad</title>
	<atom:link href="http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/</link>
	<description>Rants and Raves from Saudi Arabia</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rasheed</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/#comment-18746</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rasheed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.org/?p=2372#comment-18746</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The rights outlined in Saudi law are all very good if they were actually implemented. The problem is that they are not. Many suspects are held for months on end without being charged or tried in a court of law, which is a violation of Saudi law.

But since it is the state that is violating its own laws, who is going to hold it accountable?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rights outlined in Saudi law are all very good if they were actually implemented. The problem is that they are not. Many suspects are held for months on end without being charged or tried in a court of law, which is a violation of Saudi law.</p>
<p>But since it is the state that is violating its own laws, who is going to hold it accountable?</p>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; Saudi Arabia: Protecting Rights Abroad and at Home</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/#comment-18678</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Global Voices Online &#187; Saudi Arabia: Protecting Rights Abroad and at Home]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.org/?p=2372#comment-18678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] citizens to take certain precautions to safeguard their rights while travelling abroad this summer. Saudi Jeans notes: &#8220;The guidelines advise Saudis involved in legal cases to only speak in the presence of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] citizens to take certain precautions to safeguard their rights while travelling abroad this summer. Saudi Jeans notes: &#8220;The guidelines advise Saudis involved in legal cases to only speak in the presence of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chiara</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/#comment-18673</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chiara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.org/?p=2372#comment-18673</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed!! LOL :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed!! LOL :)</p>
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		<title>By: Shafiq</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/#comment-18672</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shafiq]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.org/?p=2372#comment-18672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chiara,

Toronto is lovely (from what I hear), but then again, it doesn&#039;t take much to be cleaner and safer than a US city.

This latest bout of McCarthyism is getting quite tiring now. I hope it ends soon. At least here in Britain, no-one cares of you have a long beard. I&#039;ve heard Steven Harper is a right **** but hopefully he&#039;ll be gone at the next election. It&#039;s time to et rid of all the Bush-era statesman.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chiara,</p>
<p>Toronto is lovely (from what I hear), but then again, it doesn&#8217;t take much to be cleaner and safer than a US city.</p>
<p>This latest bout of McCarthyism is getting quite tiring now. I hope it ends soon. At least here in Britain, no-one cares of you have a long beard. I&#8217;ve heard Steven Harper is a right **** but hopefully he&#8217;ll be gone at the next election. It&#8217;s time to et rid of all the Bush-era statesman.</p>
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		<title>By: Chiara</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/#comment-18659</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chiara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.org/?p=2372#comment-18659</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed! See I can be brief! LOL :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed! See I can be brief! LOL :)</p>
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		<title>By: Chiara</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/#comment-18658</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chiara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.org/?p=2372#comment-18658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NielsC--Of course I don&#039;t think it is okay to leave a baby, child, or young children alone in a car, and most Canadians these days wouldn&#039;t dream of it (in the past there was less concern about child abduction). In both the instances I described, there was clearly no pattern of abuse or neglect, and a clear error, not of judgment, but of cognition. Specifically, both men were conditioned by routine not to have a child in the car at that time of day, doing that activity, and thus when the toddler in the safety seat buckled into the back seat fell asleep, in the silence, both followed through on their normal routine. This was proven in court and resulted in charges being dropped.

The medical doctor was with his 14 yr old daughter and went into the store with her on a routine errand.  He had brought the baby as a last minute decision and engaged in discussion with the older one forgot the other (as did the older one).  The other man normally dropped his wife off at work and then the baby off at daycare.  Since his wife didn&#039;t need a ride to work that day, he was supposed to drop the baby  off, but conditioned by the routine of wife then baby, he forgot he hadn&#039;t dropped the baby off, and went in to work a normal shift, unaware the child was sleeping in the car. Unfortunately because of the length of time, when he returned he discovered his child dead.

The Dr&#039;s case is described here:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/05/08/hamilton_doctor010508.html

Sorry, I&#039;ve tried in English and French for the other one, and can&#039;t find a reference. My memory for this kind of thing is usually good though (clinical training). I did discover that a number of men in France, Switzerland, and Belgium have done the same sort of thing--one a pharmacist who stopped for an accident, was flustered, and forgot to drop off his 2 year old, whom he discovered dead, 2 hours later when he came back to car after a shortened afternoon shift in the pharmacy.

The problem for me is with the overreaction of Children&#039;s Aid (who have more serious cases to attend to--like the psychotic mothers I talk to them about), the police, and the media. While socially prominent people should be held to account they sometimes receive worse treatment than less prominent ones. In the case of the Quebec fellow the original charges were excessive, and he will bear the burden of his daughter&#039;s death for the rest of his life. Although I only know the medical Dr by professional repution (excellent), he went up infinitely in my estimation, for going back into the media spotlight to defend the Quebec working class man, with less clout. 

Thanks for the chance to clarify, in case anyone else was confused about my beliefs. On re-reading it might have been the &quot;(and the whims of its citizens)&quot; remark that led to confusion. That was in reference to other incidences, sorry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NielsC&#8211;Of course I don&#8217;t think it is okay to leave a baby, child, or young children alone in a car, and most Canadians these days wouldn&#8217;t dream of it (in the past there was less concern about child abduction). In both the instances I described, there was clearly no pattern of abuse or neglect, and a clear error, not of judgment, but of cognition. Specifically, both men were conditioned by routine not to have a child in the car at that time of day, doing that activity, and thus when the toddler in the safety seat buckled into the back seat fell asleep, in the silence, both followed through on their normal routine. This was proven in court and resulted in charges being dropped.</p>
<p>The medical doctor was with his 14 yr old daughter and went into the store with her on a routine errand.  He had brought the baby as a last minute decision and engaged in discussion with the older one forgot the other (as did the older one).  The other man normally dropped his wife off at work and then the baby off at daycare.  Since his wife didn&#8217;t need a ride to work that day, he was supposed to drop the baby  off, but conditioned by the routine of wife then baby, he forgot he hadn&#8217;t dropped the baby off, and went in to work a normal shift, unaware the child was sleeping in the car. Unfortunately because of the length of time, when he returned he discovered his child dead.</p>
<p>The Dr&#8217;s case is described here:<br />
<a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/05/08/hamilton_doctor010508.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/05/08/hamilton_doctor010508.html</a></p>
<p>Sorry, I&#8217;ve tried in English and French for the other one, and can&#8217;t find a reference. My memory for this kind of thing is usually good though (clinical training). I did discover that a number of men in France, Switzerland, and Belgium have done the same sort of thing&#8211;one a pharmacist who stopped for an accident, was flustered, and forgot to drop off his 2 year old, whom he discovered dead, 2 hours later when he came back to car after a shortened afternoon shift in the pharmacy.</p>
<p>The problem for me is with the overreaction of Children&#8217;s Aid (who have more serious cases to attend to&#8211;like the psychotic mothers I talk to them about), the police, and the media. While socially prominent people should be held to account they sometimes receive worse treatment than less prominent ones. In the case of the Quebec fellow the original charges were excessive, and he will bear the burden of his daughter&#8217;s death for the rest of his life. Although I only know the medical Dr by professional repution (excellent), he went up infinitely in my estimation, for going back into the media spotlight to defend the Quebec working class man, with less clout. </p>
<p>Thanks for the chance to clarify, in case anyone else was confused about my beliefs. On re-reading it might have been the &#8220;(and the whims of its citizens)&#8221; remark that led to confusion. That was in reference to other incidences, sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Chiara</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/#comment-18657</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chiara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.org/?p=2372#comment-18657</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shafiq--oh! but Toronto&#039;s nickname is/was &quot;Toronto the Good&quot; (tea-totalling WASP Anglican conservative stock; much cleaner and safer than a US city).  

Indeed, being brown and having a beard is very suspicious. Rohinton Mistry a Zoroastrian native of India, Canadian citizen, with a thin moustache and a goatee, and a major author was harassed at every airport on a book tour through the US, until he just came back to his home in a Toronto suburb with a very high South Asian population.

Other brown people of whatever ethnicity, race or religions are harassed (spat at, eggs thrown, threatened as terrorists) in Canada,  and if facial hair is a personal choice for the men they often shave it.

Canada has broadly done alot of arresting of Muslims on special war type measures: no cause needed, no proof, no charges, no or little access to a lawyer, &quot;evidence&quot; withheld, evidence made up, information blocked from defense counsel, defense counsel and key witnesses (I know one of them well--he&#039;s white and would have shown that CSIS makes up stories about targets) threatened by CSIS about putting a certain witness on the stand, or  testifying...all at the insistence of the US. The only time Canada has invoked such war measures (the real ones, not the new ones) since WWII was by Prime Minister Pierre &quot;Just Watch Me&quot; Trudeau during the 1970&#039;s FLQ Crisis for a brief period.

White people are becoming more aware here too, and the only reason Prime Minister Stephen &quot;We should have gone to Iraq too&quot; Harper is holding to a 2011 withdrawal from Afghanistan is that the populace is so against staying, and was even before the economic downturn.

I&#039;m glad your hometown is reasonable as a temporary place to continue to live, and that you will take your education and move on. Recent brain studies are showing that weed is alot more dangerous to the mind and body than people realize. Chronic use has long been shown to induce apathy in a high percentage of people, and acute or regular use makes some paranoid--a very unpleasant feeling, indeed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shafiq&#8211;oh! but Toronto&#8217;s nickname is/was &#8220;Toronto the Good&#8221; (tea-totalling WASP Anglican conservative stock; much cleaner and safer than a US city).  </p>
<p>Indeed, being brown and having a beard is very suspicious. Rohinton Mistry a Zoroastrian native of India, Canadian citizen, with a thin moustache and a goatee, and a major author was harassed at every airport on a book tour through the US, until he just came back to his home in a Toronto suburb with a very high South Asian population.</p>
<p>Other brown people of whatever ethnicity, race or religions are harassed (spat at, eggs thrown, threatened as terrorists) in Canada,  and if facial hair is a personal choice for the men they often shave it.</p>
<p>Canada has broadly done alot of arresting of Muslims on special war type measures: no cause needed, no proof, no charges, no or little access to a lawyer, &#8220;evidence&#8221; withheld, evidence made up, information blocked from defense counsel, defense counsel and key witnesses (I know one of them well&#8211;he&#8217;s white and would have shown that CSIS makes up stories about targets) threatened by CSIS about putting a certain witness on the stand, or  testifying&#8230;all at the insistence of the US. The only time Canada has invoked such war measures (the real ones, not the new ones) since WWII was by Prime Minister Pierre &#8220;Just Watch Me&#8221; Trudeau during the 1970&#8242;s FLQ Crisis for a brief period.</p>
<p>White people are becoming more aware here too, and the only reason Prime Minister Stephen &#8220;We should have gone to Iraq too&#8221; Harper is holding to a 2011 withdrawal from Afghanistan is that the populace is so against staying, and was even before the economic downturn.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad your hometown is reasonable as a temporary place to continue to live, and that you will take your education and move on. Recent brain studies are showing that weed is alot more dangerous to the mind and body than people realize. Chronic use has long been shown to induce apathy in a high percentage of people, and acute or regular use makes some paranoid&#8211;a very unpleasant feeling, indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: keith</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/#comment-18656</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[keith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.org/?p=2372#comment-18656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think, that  for balance, it would be best if everyone knew their rights and RESPONSIBILITIES or obligations, whether in their own countries or abroad. There is too much emphasis on rights in most western countries and not enough on the other side of the equation. And like most cliches, &quot;when in Rome.....&quot; has a large dose of common sense in it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think, that  for balance, it would be best if everyone knew their rights and RESPONSIBILITIES or obligations, whether in their own countries or abroad. There is too much emphasis on rights in most western countries and not enough on the other side of the equation. And like most cliches, &#8220;when in Rome&#8230;..&#8221; has a large dose of common sense in it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Shafiq</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/#comment-18655</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shafiq]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.org/?p=2372#comment-18655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is my hometown and yes, I am surrounded by psychopaths and weirdos. Despite what I&#039;ve said, it is a relatively safe place to be and there&#039;s a large Muslim community there to help if things do go wrong.

But as soon a I graduate, I&#039;m out of here. I don&#039;t exactly fit in well - most of the people here (Muslims included) prefer to hang around street corners smoking weed whereas I actually want to get somewhere with my life.

P.S. Toronto is not cursed. I&#039;m surprised it&#039;s only happened twice. That happens here all the time and after the media makes a big deal about it, they&#039;re quietly released or re-arrested on trumped up child-pornography charges - Same story every time. I do remember once though, a friend of a friend was deported back here upon arriving in Canada for being brown and having a beard.

The good thing is that white people are beginning to realise (over here anyway) what&#039;s really happening]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my hometown and yes, I am surrounded by psychopaths and weirdos. Despite what I&#8217;ve said, it is a relatively safe place to be and there&#8217;s a large Muslim community there to help if things do go wrong.</p>
<p>But as soon a I graduate, I&#8217;m out of here. I don&#8217;t exactly fit in well &#8211; most of the people here (Muslims included) prefer to hang around street corners smoking weed whereas I actually want to get somewhere with my life.</p>
<p>P.S. Toronto is not cursed. I&#8217;m surprised it&#8217;s only happened twice. That happens here all the time and after the media makes a big deal about it, they&#8217;re quietly released or re-arrested on trumped up child-pornography charges &#8211; Same story every time. I do remember once though, a friend of a friend was deported back here upon arriving in Canada for being brown and having a beard.</p>
<p>The good thing is that white people are beginning to realise (over here anyway) what&#8217;s really happening</p>
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		<title>By: NielsC</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2009/07/09/rights-home-and-abroad/#comment-18654</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NielsC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.org/?p=2372#comment-18654</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;A top medical professor was charged, investigated, and reported on in the national media, because he accidently left his toddler asleep in a parked car, while he spent 1/2 hour in a store. A passerby saw the child and alerted the police. He was ultimately (months later) cleared, and helped to clear another man who was charged with murdering his daughter because he accidently left her asleep in the back seat of his car for the duration of his work day, and she died.&quot;
And I guess that Chiara thinks it&#039;s okay to leave a baby alone in a car.Well I don&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A top medical professor was charged, investigated, and reported on in the national media, because he accidently left his toddler asleep in a parked car, while he spent 1/2 hour in a store. A passerby saw the child and alerted the police. He was ultimately (months later) cleared, and helped to clear another man who was charged with murdering his daughter because he accidently left her asleep in the back seat of his car for the duration of his work day, and she died.&#8221;<br />
And I guess that Chiara thinks it&#8217;s okay to leave a baby alone in a car.Well I don&#8217;t.</p>
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