The Shoura Council is an advisory body comprised of 150 members appointed by the King and serves as a quasi-parliament. Those members are academics, technocrats and businessmen. They are, in other words, the intelligentsia of the Saudi society, the crème de la crème, the elite, the… well, you get the idea.
However, I find myself rather gobsmacked by some of the conclusions they make and the recommendations they reach on some issues. Here’s a recent example: after being equally split over a need to simplify the regulations of Saudi marriages to foreigners, the newly appointed vice president Bandar al-Hajjar rejected the proposal. What a disappointing start for Mr. al-Hajjar who was just a few days ago the president of the National Society for Human Rights.
I do not understand the harsh restrictions enforced on citizens who want to marry foreigners. Why should the government bother with who one chooses to marry? I really do not understand the government’s obsession with interfering in the minutiae of people’s personal lives.
The argument offered by the proposal opponents is embarrassingly weak and wrongheaded they should be ashamed of themselves. “Such recommendations would greatly increase the number of Saudis marrying foreigners while we are fully aware of the complications that such marriages create,” they said. They also said changes would only exacerbate the problem of spinsterhood in the Kingdom. Are they trying to convince us that by taking these unfair measures they are actually protecting Saudi women?
As for the “complications” bit, the best response comes from Sabria Jawhar who says, “Well, those complications are created by the Saudi government in the first place. Perhaps minimizing the complications that exist in the law would help those marriages.”
Now how can a large group of supposedly intelligent people all agree on taking such an unintelligent position is just beyond me. Sadly, it is not the first time and this is not an isolated, single case. Remember the weekend thing?
Around one year ago, my good friend Khaled said that we should not get all worked up over the nonperformance of the Shoura Council because it is nothing more than a dead body that we should respectfully leave to rest in peace. I guess he was right all along.
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77 responses so far ↓
Yasser Alghaslan // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 2:35 |
The day will come when the Shoura Council will talk and debate if we as Saudis have the right to travel to work outside Saudi Arabia, or if we are in titled to live and enjoy the beauties the life presents, the philosophy of reject is a mindset of a very insecure Saudi elite.
Ahmed // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 3:07 |
So I can’t marry my British girlfriend =’( ?
I’ll tell Kate that I can’t marry her cause my government already choose my wife. Who she’s actually married to the government. NOT ME!
Hning // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 3:20 |
I’ve already vented furiously about this before, so I’m so not going to go there again.
My brand new shiny two cents, though, wonders if regulations would be more effective if they spent their efforts in improving their daughters’ “marriageable qualities” so that they don’t turn into social wallflowers, which requires giving them intelligence and self esteem and oh, how do I say this, some WORTH.
But that wouldn’t do the boys any good, would it? No, a smart, self-appreciating, independent and intelligent wife is so much worse than a wallflower…
Right.
Nzingha // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 12:37 |
heres a clue, let Saudi women choose to marry who they want, be able to pass on citizenship to their foriegn spouse (like men) and have the ability to pass on citizenship to their children (like men) and perhaps that will ease all problems they think marrying foriegners creates. Would solve the spinsterhood issue all in one go.
Madame Mansour // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 13:32 |
I’m not familiar with other Arab countires but in Lebanon as well as Saudia, women can’t pass their citizenship to their children if they marry a foreigner, regardless of religious affiliation. Although a more “liberal” country, the same old rules apply. Don’t expect anything to change since Lebanon is a confessional government. In that regard, I don’t see anything changing in Saudia at all…the chance for change is greater in Lebanon.
Mohamed S. // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 15:06 |
@Nzingha:
Yes, let’s increase the amount of citizens in Saudi Arabia, a country with a huge birth rate and an ever increasing unemployment rate that estimates rate at least over 10% and the need to create 300′000 jobs a year in a one pony economy. Good Job.
Aafke // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 15:16 |
*should respectfully leave to rest in peace*
LOL!
But they’re probably right…
Chances are that if it was simple and woman had equal rights in marrying foreigners, they would do just that, and there wouldn’t be a ‘’spinster” problem, but a ”bachelor” problem; as there would be very few saudi women left for the saudi men.
Perhaps saudi men could turn the tide by submitting to a very fast re-education-course by non-stop watching all episodes of ”Noor”.
Until then they have to keep the women from fleeing by making it impossible.
brownie // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 15:27 |
well … it is a farce, obviously
while our king is ferociously promoting the principles of peace and tolerance abroad …
maybe it would do some good to the council to try and think about why some saudi women want to marry foreigners
a frighteningly large proportion of divorced saudi ladies who i have had some sort of contact with told me that they would never ever marry a saudi man again, now there’s some food for thought for the council
obviously, as long as the regulation of male spouse behaviour is out of the question (as we, males, have the right to do whatever we want with the household item that we call our wives, obviously), the only way to regulate this is the forceful prevention of international marriages
i am ashamed to be associated with these people and their backward and arrogant ways of thinking (thinking ,,. far from that … the lack of thinking, rather)
Loay Al-Shareef // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 15:31 |
@Mohamed S
Shame on you! you haven’t tasted how it feels like being born and raised in a country for more than 25 years and they you are banned to be a citizen, and not only that but people justify this with ISLAM!!! pity!
I really want to know how would it feel to have this with your children, at the time you’ll realize that you have gone north, and that these “racist” ideas will not prevail.
brownie // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 15:37 |
by the way, i must add though that as far as i know, it is more difficult for a saudi man to marry a foreigner than for a saudi woman to do the same, but this thought is only based on what i heard from friends etc, so this may not be the case generally
whatever the case is, this regulation is severely obsolete and embarrassing and gives the system the power to interfere with something that they have nothing to do with
but they do like to interfere with things that they have nothing to do with, don’t they?
Loay Al-Shareef // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 16:29 |
@brownie
Absolutely true, a Saudi man can’t marry a foreigner without a permit from the Saudi Minister of Interior and that is not issued unless the Local Emara approves a letter request from the Saudi guy “explaining” why he would marry a “non-Saudi”! and if it was a girl her father has to write down a letter explaining why his daughter wants to marry a “non-Saudi”.
And yet, welcome to the Kingdom of “Humanity” = )
Later,
Andrew // Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 19:04 |
There are several points here worth pondering.
The Kingdom prides itself on the fact that all laws, and especially family law like this, are based on the Quran as defined by the ulemaa. The question arises as to what theological basis the ulemaa use to deny one group of believers (Saudis) the right to freely intermarry with believers anywhere else in the world.
The effect of this law, clearly, is to (1) exclude foreign contaminating influences from Saudi society, on the premise that foreigners would bring in ideas that could threaten the monopoly on power of the ulemaa, (2) to maintain a concentration of power and wealth, without dilution, among the Kingdom’s citizens; and (3) to petrify the existing social hierarchy in the Kingdom, inasmuch as already there exist practices in which Saudis are not socially free to marry any other Saudi, but can generally only marry others within a few socially “acceptable” groups. This also has the effect of retaining all power to the ulemaa.
Finally, by denying a fundamental human freedom — freedom of association, the right to freely associate with and marry one’s own chosen spouse is severely curtailed.
A logical corollary of this new law would be to actually require that the Kingdom approve of, and provide permission to marry those who are Saudi citizens. Or perhaps, to eliminate the pretense and simply have the ulemaa assign spouses to one another?
Nefertiti // Friday, November 14, 2008 at 8:57 |
Ahmed, this means we can’t get married! Quick! you have to do something before I get impatient and said yes to someone else..
love your writing, btw…
anees // Friday, November 14, 2008 at 12:52 |
Hello Ahmad,
One thing to mention on the government doesn’t stop , the government blocks a long list of names that parents are not allowed to give to their child. Well, the reasons why they do that are many, so the list is so long.
Hning // Friday, November 14, 2008 at 17:35 |
@ Mohamed S
Dude, you’re missing the point. The Saudis who complain about the regulation are the ones who want to Marry-out, not Marry-in. Bi-national couples don’t marry and then stick to their marriages for the sake of a career boost, man!
And you can’t control the ANY economy by forbidding people from marrying their loved ones. Look at it this way, if Saudis were allowed to marry other nationalities, maybe THEN they can learn a thing or two about birth control. Hence providing leverage to that economy you were worried about, ya?
khair // Friday, November 14, 2008 at 18:37 |
This is rule of forbidding people to marry foreigner is at best a blasphemy when joined with the issue of not giving citizenship to the children born from that holy matrimony between 2 people of a very different countries.
First, Salman Al-Farisi was accepted by Rasullulah SAW as a friend and confidant. He is a farsi/foreigner call him what you like. He get the citizenship of Medina.
Secondly, Rasulullah had preferred us to marry people we don’t know. He preferred that we make new blood ties instead of marrying our cousins or relatives.
Thirdly, Rasulullah SAW himself married foreigner.
I could go on and on with more examples, but it will bore all of your reader
So, have you no shame O Shura Council?
Anyway, same problem here in my country. No ikhwanul muslimin, just ikhwanul Malaysian!
Mohamed S. // Friday, November 14, 2008 at 23:17 |
@Loay:
I have never mentioned Islam anywhere in post nor anything racist at all. The sole reason for this is decreasing spinsterhood and the fact that Saudi Arabia simply can not support anymore citizens then it already has.
And if I was in this situation? I would have moved away from Saudi Arabia a long time ago. It has limited opportunities for anything (employment,education..ect.) either for citizens or spouses of citizens.
@Hning:
Why would Saudis marrying non-nationals make them learn about birth control?
Ali Mohmmed Ali // Saturday, November 15, 2008 at 15:27 |
hey ahmed you just making me happy every day
, and you know where i stand , god damn it !!! i think it’s a shame that our won people treat us this way .
it’s been said the kingdom of humanity
i’ll read the whole article later , so busy at the office now
see ya
نجلاء // Saturday, November 15, 2008 at 15:55 |
Ahmed,
I have never believed in this Shoura thing nor in any other council in this country (KSA indeed)
and I am not surprised from the conclusions they reach.. I am actually AMAZED that they DO REACH ONES!!
As you said.. they are the ELITE.. and they can never reach conclusions or take decisions that can do well for the lower class.. because they simply have no idea how do we Normally Live!! They live in their own Crystals!
American Bedu // Saturday, November 15, 2008 at 16:11 |
It is actually more restrictive and prohibitive for a Saudi woman to marry a non-Saudi spouse. I have written on this topic as well as the timely process and requirements for a Saudi man to marry a non-Saudi woman.
However one thing should be made clear….it is not that the man and woman are prohibited from marriage per se. An Islamic marriage or even a civil ceremony can take place but without the governmental approval, the couple cannot live together as husband/wife in the Kingdom, the husband can not be the mahrem.
If interested, please visit my blog (http://americanbedu.com) where you can do searches on marriage, saudi marriage and find the various postings I have done on this topic.
DW // Sunday, November 16, 2008 at 15:04 |
They are living on another planet.. I already commented about how pissed I am on Al Watan website.. I can simply put it to the following question.
Why don’t they ask are Saudis marrying foreigners and not Saudi Girls?
I am quite positive if they ask the right questions.. they will have the right answers.. other than that.. they are choking society into finding its own alternatives out of the mess they create.
Misyar, Marrying foreigners, sex toursim… all of these are symptoms to a root problem.. young Saudis.. Men and women.. are trying to find alternatives.. how can we not see how simple it is that those two see a dead road togeather with the way things are? we just have blind gophers for a council.
Sara // Sunday, November 16, 2008 at 17:06 |
o..m..g…wsh da5alhom bilthab6..ana illy batzawajah mo hom!!..
they have to butt in everything…OMG IM SO FURRRRRIOUSE RIGHT NOW…we cant even choose whom we can marry !!…niiiiiiiiiiiice!!! =D!!
dude im like fuming over her!!…
Ali Dada // Sunday, November 16, 2008 at 23:12 |
even though I would love to get married to a Saudi woman (beauty/lifestyle/cuisine, etc..) I can understand the Govt.’s heavy handedness with regards to this.
See, in Canada, they allow easy marriage to foreigners and I have personally seen many cases where the spouse comes over to Canada, gets his/her paperwork done (so basically after 3 years they become citizens) and they leave the spouse!
Can you imagine the pain and suffering the victim goes through?
Saudi women can still get married to foreigners but I read the process takes close to 1.5 years to 2 years.
Oh well, such is life I guess.
Ali // Monday, November 17, 2008 at 1:18 |
I think this is another reason why I don’t like to live in Saudi Arabia….Human rights violation. What if the Saudi will marry a Muslim Jordanian, Palestinian, Egyptian and worse a Christian just like Prohet Mohammad, is that a crime? I think there was better human rights in Jaheliyah and Prophet Mohamad days than it is today. Alot of change is needed in KSA, and there are many well educated Saudi intellectuals who can make it happen
S.. // Monday, November 17, 2008 at 6:39 |
human rights is bullshit
Loay Al-Shareef // Monday, November 17, 2008 at 8:01 |
@Ali Dada
When the Canadians and American decided to ease marriage to Foreigners they knew that some people might take advantage of that, so what did they do? put heavy restrictions? NO, they enlighten anyone who wants to marry a Foreigner and then “leave them the choice”, they don’t babysit them in every decision they make.
And if 1 or 2 or 3 cases happen the way you said it still wouldn’t be reasonable enough to put a restriction on easing marriage, people there think differently, while we are so good in talking about Islam and the freedom of choice it provided when it comes to the ground the s*** hits the fans.
Late,
damir // Monday, November 17, 2008 at 10:08 |
“a large group of intelligent people all agree on taking such an unintelligent position ”
this is a definition of goverment workgroup ….
Loay Al-Shareef // Monday, November 17, 2008 at 11:26 |
**Update**
A friend of mine last night was talking with me about this issue, he is Egyptian born in Riyadh and he resides now in Riyadh as he works, he said that he married his co-worker friend and she is Saudi, it took 8 months to get the permit from the Ministry of Interior.
Maybe the “born-Foreigners” take faster processing than normal Foreigners, he said the same applies to the Foreigner girl who was born in Saudi.
8 months is good but still..there is no need to make it through the Ministry of Interior.
The strange thing he mentioned was that her father in the proposal had to write “reasons for his daughter to marry a non-Saudi” !! I mean WHAAAAAAAAT ????!!! It’s not like she is gonna marry an INFIDEL to give reasons!!! GOD !!!
When guys want to marry their compatriots the families put a HIIIIGGH “Mahr” and things get so complicated and when they want to marry non-Saudis the GOVERNMENT bothers!!!
I guess they want us all GAYS and vote against Prop 8 in California
LOL
Things are very complicated here, and that fact is undisputed.
Later,
web0908 // Monday, November 17, 2008 at 15:31 |
Have the Shoura Council considered that there highly regarded Saudi Men (or Women) will, instead of staying in the Kingdom move to the country of the foreign wife and NEVER return to Saudi Arabia?
With intelligent Saudi men and Women moving to different countries, paying taxes and beefing up the economy of the foreign spouses country. How will this reflect in 10 years time on the Saudi Governments decisions, with the population getting older and no Grand kids there to support the ageing?
Forget the emotional aspect of this ridiculous decision, consider the economic side. With the Saud Government increasing payments for students studying outside of the kingdom I have a hunch we will be seeing a lot more inter racial love affairs and marriages as time goes on. Where will these so called intelligentsia be then?? And will there decisions be different??
Global Voices Online » Saudi Arabia: Marriage Restrictions // Monday, November 17, 2008 at 18:01 |
[...] Saudi Jeans is annoyed his country's 150-member Shura (consultative) Council rejected a law to simplify the regulations of Saudi marriages to foreigners. “I do not understand the harsh restrictions enforced on citizens who want to marry foreigners. Why should the government bother with who one chooses to marry?” he asks. Posted by Amira Al Hussaini Print Version Share This [...]
Mohamed S. // Tuesday, November 18, 2008 at 0:54 |
@Web0908:
A huge amount of Saudi Arabia’s population is under the age of 20. Not 10 years, think 50 years and a lot could happen in that time period.
web0908 // Tuesday, November 18, 2008 at 5:52 |
I wonder if anyone of these couples have attempted to apply to the UN on grounds of deprivation of Human Rights?
Particularly Article 16
Everyone shall have the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law and
Article 17
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his honour and reputation.
Just a thought….
web0908 // Tuesday, November 18, 2008 at 5:53 |
And of course…
Article 23
The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
The right of men and women of marriageable age to marry and to found a family shall be recognized.
Ali Dada // Tuesday, November 18, 2008 at 8:14 |
@Loay:
Personally, I find all this immigration/citizenship kinda unnatural. The more open the World’s system, the better it would be for humanity.
Oh well, can’t change the laws.
FYI I have seen many many cases where such immigration fraud occured. There is no enlightment, etc. given to those Canadians who want to marry foreigners.
At the end, I guess really Allah SWT has a fate written for all of us and that fate is for our own benefit even if no benefit is visible to us.
Abs Yasin // Tuesday, November 18, 2008 at 9:43 |
A Single minded decision….
Man they’re choking the citizens here!
Loay Al-Shareef // Tuesday, November 18, 2008 at 11:44 |
@Ali Dada
I agree with you, and I’m aware of these frauds, and no one can EVER agree with that, but should we ban a citizen to marry a Foreigner because there are some wackos that take advantage of that? This is not the way that we should think, I guess that marriage is a tie that has no boundries and no limitations and goes far beyond that, everyone should be responsible for their call.
An American girl or a Canadian girl can fairly determine on her own who wants to take advantage of her and who doesn’t. Believe me, they can.
Off the record:
ya a5i elli yesma3ak yegol alzawaj sahl fel so3odeya, shoof bass keef almohoor wal3aadaat alqabaleya almota5alefa
Sorry for the Anglo-Arabic statement up there, I couldn’t put it better in English
LOL
Best Regards,
islamicarticles // Tuesday, November 18, 2008 at 19:40 |
I was shocked to read that Mr. Al-Hajjar used to be the president of the National Society for Human Rights! He above all should have firsthand knowledge on how hard these regulations can be on Saudis who wish to marry foreigners. Well for those who don’t have wasta that is. Maybe his decision was influenced by the numerous cases he witnessed of divorce and child custody disagreements between Saudis and foreigners and Allah knows best.
I linked your post to my blog for further reading…
http://taraummomar.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-ease-for-those-who-dare-marry-saudis.html
Sarah // Sunday, November 23, 2008 at 4:50 |
The goverment of KSA can bann or allow inter cultural marriages, but…is the Saudi society ready for accept this kind of marriages? A Saudi woman and her family will accept a foreign man as husband for their daughter? A Saudi family will accept with any problem a foreing wife for their son? Do you really think that the law is the problem?
Loay Al-Shareef // Sunday, November 23, 2008 at 13:50 |
Sarah,
The problem is the government’s intervene, we want to be given the choice, and we can carry out the consequences ALONE
I’m really amazed when I see people talk this way and then later on claim that all what it matters is that we all be Muslims! CUT THE CAP we live in a hypocrite world, we are two-faced, and what we see is not what we get.
Racism still rules…that is a fact…Look to the Muslims before 1923, we were all one, but now that failed, absolutely.
Sarah // Monday, November 24, 2008 at 5:15 |
Loay,
In my comment I didn’t mention Islam or muslims. If you study Islam in deep, you will find that every muslim can marry with the person they choose, but what you can never forget is that in every country exists traditions, values and practices beyond the law. It’s not bad or good. It’s just the reality we live and I open the question for think more in that. The changes in the nations never happens if the citizens are not prepare or claiming for new standars of life.
Kind regards,
Sarah
Loay Al-Shareef // Monday, November 24, 2008 at 11:57 |
Sarah,
I don’t mean to make an argument wallah, but your point emphasizes the problem, that traditions are stronger than religion in many countries! that what really makes me so mad and furious!! We can’t neglect the fact that we are all Muslims, a Muslim can marry any Muslima even if she doesn’t know her lineage or she doesn’t belong to a tribe.
We have traditions in our tribe, and you know something? our traditions might be the most restrictive traditions in all Arab tribes, but guess what?! some members managed to fight and they prevailed over those traditions because those simply didn’t relate to Islam, we have many branches in Saudi, Egypt, Syria, Iraq and I can tell you that when everyone “applies” Islam with all the teachings it encompasses all the problems will fade away.
But we just “pretend” and don’t actually “act”, that is what I call “Pretending but not acting syndrome”, Allah ye5arejna.
Sincerely,
Loay
Sarah // Tuesday, November 25, 2008 at 3:14 |
Loay,
For solving a problem you have to see what is the problem, then it comes the solution/s. Changes in societies will not occur in 1, 2 days…takes long time. Ahmad in his blog for example, is giving to their people another point of view. That is a very important and beautiful thing.
Dear Loay, getting angry does not solve anything. In KSA maybe this tradition of getting marry between Saudis will change through the years…or maybe not, but for sure if this way of behave doesn’t change, how it can be possible that most of the Saudi citizens complain about the legal procedures of getting married with foreigners in KSA?
Salam,
Sarah
Abu Sinan // Tuesday, November 25, 2008 at 20:18 |
Complications? As an American man married to a Saudi woman I can tell you first hand that the only “complications” we have come directly from the Saudi government themselves.
So much for the land of Islam. Anyone care to come up with an Islamic reason to ban marriages to foreigners? There isnt any.
This is about sexism, racism, xenophobia and insecure men.
To this day I cannot even travel to Saudi with my wife, my wife cannot visit Saudi without the permission of a Mehram (male member of her family) even though she is a married woman.
Our two boys do not have the right to Saudi citizenship, as is the case in every civilised country in the world. Too bad most of the Middle East doesnt fall into this category.
My wife cannot get a passport, she is not eligible for the scholarship, all because she is married to a non Saudi Muslim man.
We have both spent hours and hours trying to get help from the Saudi Embassy here, with no avail.
Meanwhile, the trade in foreign wives for Saudi men grow. The same men unwilling to marry widowed and divorced Saudi women. If they were more willing to follow the example of the prophet and marry widows and divorcees maybe there wouldnt be so many Saudi women wanting to marry non Saudi men.
I have been blogging now for almost 4 years and I get e-mails all of the time from Saudi women wanting to know how to marry foreigners, how to get their families to accept it, you name it.
More insanity that is the culture of Saudi Arabia.
muslimah // Thursday, November 27, 2008 at 4:11 |
stupid people. they should go back to learning the basic islamic principles at the nursery level.
our Prophet actually encouraged us to marry ppl from other culture so muslims from 2 different parts of the world can come together.
why th does saudi arabia have to claim to be the guardians of islam. please stop saying that and do whatever the heck you want, just stop using islam w/ every action u take. you guys give islam a bad name.
muslimah // Thursday, November 27, 2008 at 4:15 |
“To this day I cannot even travel to Saudi with my wife, my wife cannot visit Saudi without the permission of a Mehram (male member of her family) even though she is a married woman.”
wow abu sinan, i read the story of a saudi woman who wasnt allowed to travel b/c she had the *permission* of her dad to travel. the authorities pointed out shes married and needs herh usband approval! talk abt double standards. no wonder ksa is in a mess.
Loay Al-Shareef // Thursday, November 27, 2008 at 13:34 |
@Sarah,
I’m not mad nor angry, I might be a bit enthusiast, I respect all opinions but as I said to you, when we can’t intervene in the changes in our society nothing will happen, we must take a place in the process.
And then the people can speak and determine by their own what is the best for them, right?
@Abu Sinan
I think there is an amendment about that, go and check with the embassy again about letting your wife to get a scholarship, I know someone whos his wife studies in Canada with him and he is non-Saudi.
Sorry to hear your suffer, but God willing the change will surface soon on our beloved country.
Regards,
Loay
yasmin // Thursday, December 11, 2008 at 5:29 |
I am engaged to a saudi for four years now and we’ve been waiting for that permit to marry (from saudi government) seems like forever!
We can’t proceed to marry outside of the kingdom because according to some muhamis, there’ll be more complications with the release of that tasreh. I am an expat, so if we marry outside of the kingdom, we travel back like we’re not together, and if he would visit me in my accomodation, would it mean like he will come like a thief in the night?
So this is really a hopeless case for us!
sarah // Saturday, March 14, 2009 at 17:33 |
Assalamualikum Wa Rasmatullah wa Barakatuh
This issue is a huge dilemma…I am originally from Venezuela leaving in the UK, I met a Saudi bother 3 years ago here, his mother and his father were happy with his choice of marry me, so we did marry here in England and alhamdulillah we have a successful marriage life.
However we request to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia the permission (iqama) to legalize our marry there. My mother-in-law passed away last year, I couldn’t go to Saudi to support my husband and in-laws because our situation.
so my father-in-law was alone there and my husband and I decide to bring him here with us, but my father-in-law just stay with us just in the summer he can not cope the winter… poor thing
I still waiting for Saudi Arabia allow me to get into the country, my husband come to UK every 4 weeks to see me and on top of that we can not have children till the kingdom give us the permission.
that is not Islamic that is extremely unfair and I think the Saudi national they can marry anyone the want.
Quran:
[49:13] O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.
I just wonder how can the government of Saudi Arabia manage all those students that are in the south of England and most of they are all ready marry here with lady’s from everywhere around the globe? and not just here in UK, Canada, USA, Australia and everywhere.
I hope Allah (swa) mercy enter in the heart of those who make the decision of our life’s and allow all of us to be happy with our own choice…
Moe // Monday, March 16, 2009 at 7:19 |
I do not understand. Is Saudi Arabia not based on Sharia law, and in Sharia Muslim women can marry any man as long as he is a Muslim. It does not matter if he is English, Moroccan, Pakistani or Nigerian as long as he is a Muslim then there is no restriction. Any this is interesting, because Saudi claims to be a country governed by Islam, yet how can they have restrictions like this?
sarah // Monday, March 16, 2009 at 21:25 |
yes it is very sad, that Saudi Arabia have so many restriction with the Saudi national…myself I didn’t believe it. but now I am in the situation and it is very frustrating to see how life is passing and we still waiting for a decision of someone who is not even part of my husband family. the life of Saudi man depend in how much money he can pay for that permission or how many friends he knows in the office minister. I think is not human right at all… but I feel more sad for the Saudi lady’s because for them can be even worse and sometime the woman leave Saudi Arabia to be with their love one…subhana allah. that is not islam
Wild Dreams « Saudi Jeans // Monday, April 20, 2009 at 9:14 |
[...] of dreams and visions.” As if it is not enough that our government has been trying to tell you who you can (or can’t) marry, now they are trying to tell you how you should interpret your [...]
Miracle // Thursday, April 23, 2009 at 17:35 |
its just so unfair….when will tht stupid kingdom rules will change? been hopeless and facing a dead end.
sarah // Friday, April 24, 2009 at 11:39 |
Hello everyone, little update… after 5 month of waiting for the permission, we received the news …
The people in charge to ruin my husband life and mine decided to reject our application… that means the Imara office in Jeddah take part in my life and they are not even related to us to make such of decision …my husband and I are very breakpointed for this outcome. so I am marry officially by the United kingdom law and the rest of the world except to Saudi Arabia are this people normal??? that is the most anti human right action I ever see in my life also anti Islamic,,, that is ridiculous. we need to appeal our case and guess what ?? they don’t even know how we can do it… this people are jokers Estafirullah
Lana // Friday, April 24, 2009 at 19:13 |
Dear Sarah,
Last year we are waited for 7 months and after all in-out to Saudi (as we are living and working in Qatar) even i forgot how many time my fiance he went to Riyadh, so in the last step, in last 5% in order to reach 100% – they denied.
And its was last bad news in year 2008 as they refused on 29th of December.
From next day we started another tactics and till mean time waiting, insha`Allah we will get it.
Wishing you all the best and let Allah to bless your efforts.
sarah // Friday, April 24, 2009 at 20:20 |
Thank you Dear Lana,
I Know how bad is the feeling to not be able to be with your love one.
Lana did you make new application?? or your fiancée appeal the old application??
My husband and I we married here in England UK 3 years ago and in our application, we said the truth that we were married here and they know we are married, so that is very bad and cruel of this people in charge of this matter to said not to us or anyone who is marry non Saudi. people have the right to choice their husband or wife, at the end of the day is people life not the minister life.
we need help… how can we understand the Saudi law, How can we appeal a case???
I want to be with my husband that is very upsetting ..
Allah (swa) guide us and help us in this agony to be patient and tolerant …
Amen
jUlieT // Friday, April 24, 2009 at 20:55 |
Sara and Lana,
It seems that my little hope is fading. i read your problems because we are on the same boat. My fiance is a saudi national and im a foreigner. We met when i was working in the kingdom.I went back in my country so he can prepare his papers and same here too. When I read your comments dark clouds hover my hopes.I feel weak now and almost to give up.
sarah // Friday, April 24, 2009 at 23:15 |
NO NO NO, JULIET NEVER GIVE UP, IF YOU REALLY LOVE HIM AND HE LOVE YOU INSHAALLAH EVERYTHING WILL BE OK.
I KNOW THAT IS NOT EASY BUT WE NEED TO KEEP TOGETHER IN THIS SUPPORTING ONE EACH OTHER, NEVER GIVE UP BEFORE START THE BATTLE YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT CAN HAPPENS. ALSO SOMEONE SAID THAT THEY SAY NOT TO TH FIRST APPLICATION AND EVEN THE SECOND ONE BECAUSE THEY WANT PEOPLE TO BE WEAK AND GIVE UP.
JULIET, I AM FROM VENEZUELA SOUTH AMERICA I MET MY HUSBAND HERE IN ENGLAND WILE I WAS DOING MY MASTER DEGREE, MY HUSBAND AND I WE MARRIED HERE AND AFTER HE FINISH HIS MASTER WE START THE PAPER WORK. SO FAR IS 1 NO IN FRONT BUT WE HAVE HOPE INSHAALLAH AND I WILL NOT GIVE UP, BECAUSE HE IS THE MAN I LOVE AND HE IS THE MAN WHO GIVE ME HIS LIFE TILL THE END OF OUR LIFE. WE MARRIED IN ALLAH LAWFUL WAY AND NOT ONE CAN CHANGE THAT EXCEPT ALLAH.
THIS IS A TEST OF MY PATIENT AND EVERYBODY WHO IS IN THE SAME SITUATION DON’T WORRY, YOU WILL BE FINE.
HERE YOU HAVE A FRIEND
SALAM
Lana // Friday, April 24, 2009 at 23:20 |
Dear Sarah,
Ameen, ya Rabb.
We are not married yet as he wants to obtain permission first and as in ur case he wants to get it and then to have a kids ( and i do agree with him).
During last 3 years we tried 3 times and this time is the 4th one.
Even earlier he tried to make it with wasta and its ended with cheating, nothing done/happened only we got some more problem on his head.
Recently he discovered the main reason of our refuses, as 8 years back he got a permission but than time i left him coz of my silly mind.
Anyway we are still waiting and praying for the positive result, insha`Allah.
Julie T,
I felt hopeless too but still have power for waiting and hope. These clouds are temporary and its the matter of time.
Girls, insha`Allah we will get it.
sarah // Friday, April 24, 2009 at 23:28 |
HELLO DEAR LANA,
YEAH INSHAALLAH YOU ARE RIGHT!!! WE WILL GET IT INSHAALLAH…
JUST KEEP PATIENT AND TRY TO FIND AS MUCH INFORMATION AS WE CAN ABOUT THIS MATTER.
THERE SHOULD BE A WAY, EVEN TO SEND A LETTER TO KING ABDULLAH OR SOMETHING.
WE NEED TO GIVE HOPE AND SUPPORT TO OUR MAN, I AM SURE THEY ALSO HAVE A HUGE STRESS AND PRESURE.
LOVE SARAH
lana78 // Friday, April 24, 2009 at 23:47 |
Good evening Sarah,
There is always a way and we (girls) are never looking for the easy/simple way, specially in LOVE.
And 100% agree with you regarding support to our man, as they really need it.
Kind regards,
Lana
lana78 // Saturday, April 25, 2009 at 0:03 |
Dear Sarah & JulieT.
Please have a look on attached article and there is a sentence, such as:
“Despite these strict regulations, the ministry issues about 25 permits daily for Saudis to marry foreign women.” – which is giving hope to me.
Article:
http://taraummomar.blogspot.com/2009/02/easing-of-saudi-foreign-marriages.html
Best regrads,
Lana
vicki ward // Sunday, May 3, 2009 at 22:46 |
i want to marry a foreigner from tunisia caled ahmed…am i allowed to marry him if im from the uk ?
sarah // Sunday, May 3, 2009 at 22:55 |
Hi vicki,
I am living in the UK too, I have a lot of friends married with Tunis man.
so far I know there is not problem to marry him, congratulation and go for it.
here the main trauma is marry Saudi Arabian man, that is my case, I did married him any ways here in the UK but I am not recognize as his wife in his country and I am not allowed to visit him there as his wife and on top of that we can not have children till the permission from his government is approve it … so perfect nightmare.
have a good wedding take care
Sarah
Lana // Wednesday, June 17, 2009 at 20:51 |
Salyam Sarah,
How is going your things with the permission, hope at least some1 getting good news.
) hopefully by October will get an updates, insha`Allah.
Our procedure seems will slow down as now is a time for the vacations, after that Ramadam and Eid (nobody working
sarah1talk // Wednesday, June 17, 2009 at 23:48 |
Salam dear lana,
nice to hear from you, I still in the waiting nothing so far, my husband is coming to the UK to see me and stay the summer and Ramadam here inshaallah. After that Ramadam inshaallah we hope to have news. inshaallah I hope that you have news soon inshaallah
salam
Sarah
Lana // Thursday, June 18, 2009 at 22:47 |
Insha`Allah will get only good news before Ramadan.
May Allah help you.
Add // Sunday, June 21, 2009 at 6:56 |
Sarah and Lana, Salam to you both!
I am in a similar predicament as the two of you. I was curious as to how far your processes have gone to. Specifically, in terms of paper work and procedures, what were the last step or two that your fiances took?
Thanks
Lana // Sunday, June 21, 2009 at 21:20 |
Dear ADD,
You can write me an e-mail and we can talk about it, if you want.
lana_vip@yahoo.com
Sarah, with pleasure will talk to you too.
sarah // Monday, June 22, 2009 at 0:28 |
salam, Add
I hope you are ok, I am fine alhamdulillah, in the waiting like everybody
I hope to hear from you soon
Salam Sarah
Add // Monday, June 22, 2009 at 0:45 |
Thanks Lana, I’ve emailed you.
Sarah, what was the last piece of paper work that you and your fiance filed? Are there any more paperwork required? Or have you submitted absolutely everything but are still waiting?
Thanks
Aziz_Mahmoud // Sunday, June 28, 2009 at 14:16 |
One would think it wouldn’t be as difficult for a citizen to apply for leniency in such cases, amazing when you realize you’re no different than a foriegner in this regard. I’m a Saudi citizen ( of Somali heritage )and am engaged to a woman who has a yemeni passport ( Somali/Syrian ). She was born AND raised here, feels Saudi, and is a cultured and bright woman. Abusinan had hit the nail on the head, without Wasta, you’re pleas fall on deaf ears, which is why I’ve had to bribe my way through all the processes, as I work in Dhahran ( Eastern Province ), I had to outsource my request by handing it to a Muraji ( Man who deals with government institutions in place of people who have not the time/tolerance to do so for a fee ). Started with this process late march, and if any of you are looking at todays date, June 28th, I still have not gotten my approval. What does that tell you, Ladies and Gentleman. I’m actually a citizen living WITHIN the borders of the country, wanting to get married to a woman who ( had things went right ) would have been born a Saudi citizen with ties to this country.
Is it a hassle? Yes. Is it frustrating? Yes. Will it be worth it when I eventually get the permission? Absolutely
Stay patient people and may Allah bless all those who believe and persevere
faris // Friday, July 3, 2009 at 7:09 |
assalam every1, i’m an irani muslim,not an arab, i’ve met this saudi girl over a year ago, and it’s been a while that we fell in love and we’ve decided to get married. both agreed…we know each other well enough to do so.and she wants to live outside saudi, with me. so no worries about living there. or getting married in saudi. just to convince her father is what my problem is. not to mention that he himself married a western, but he doesn’t approve me for some reason! he hasn’t even attempted to meet me, kept making excuses.even tho i am willing to convert to sunni. willing to do anything to change his mind…but what i want to know from every1, from ur experience, & knowing your own ppl, 1st of all are there any chances, if so, what can i possibly do to make him approve of me. just him tho, the rest of the family is ok with it. so i need your help asap….contact me plz… thx every1.
Aziz_Mahmoud // Sunday, July 12, 2009 at 12:48 |
Faris, not to discourage you from following through with this, but I’m certain as you’re aware of the cultural aspect that attempting to ask for the hand in marriage of the woman in question you had to speak with her father first. Sure it might not seem to be difficult with her mother being a westerner as you say, but as her father is a Saudi Arab, did you not suspect that his preference for his daughter would also have to be an Arab first and foremost. Plenty of my friends are Saudi citizens but of ancestry outside Saudi Arabiua and eventhough they are seen as Saudi by society as a whole, Saudi Arab families would not even entertain mixing their bood with outsiders, not even other Arabs from different clans, tribal culture reigns supreme, I should know, I’m Saudi but of Somali ancestry and this is exactly what led to the strife in my ancestral home. I appreciate your efforts to convert to Sunni Islam, but know it is greater than that, some Arabs harbour animosity towards Iranians. Anyway, I wish you the best of luck and I hope you dont let this lead you to cynicism.
Chiara // Sunday, July 12, 2009 at 17:19 |
For the story of an Iranian American family rejecting a Pakistani American suitor, read the blog “Broken Mystic” started because of his broken heart. One year on he is doing alot better. Also a generally interesting blog on a variety of cross cultural and socio-political topics, and his more recently started more socio-political current evets one “Muslim Reverie”.
Tribal cultures are even less likely to intermix than Arabs from countries where tribes are less important, at least in the major cities–then you just have to deal with ethnicity, religion, nationality, and Mother’s other plans!
Aziz_Mahmoud // Monday, July 13, 2009 at 12:14 |
A word of caution to all the Saudi gentleman who are in a situation as myself, hoping to marry a non-Saudi woman. If she is born in the kingdom and resides there, the process is sped up at an exponential pace. I handed in my request in April and should get the permission sometime in the next couple of weeks. Best of luck to all the people out there.
sarah // Monday, July 13, 2009 at 23:25 |
Assalamualikum Azis,
Can you tell me if you don’t mind of caurse how can someone applay for the permission? whish one is the procedure? where to go? is there a solicitor that can do the request? sorry to ask you to much but My husband request the permition last dicembre and their refuced our application, that take nearly 5 month, so now we are thinking in make apeal or make new request but w are not sure what to do, because there is not one who can help with this essue, please brother if you have any idea how can my husband make this aplication all of us will be greatfull for that.
thank you very much
Salam
Chiara // Tuesday, July 14, 2009 at 2:37 |
Sarah–I’m sure Aziz will reply more knowledgeably but based on the responses to similar questions on other blogs, a lawyer is a good idea, and so is wasta (influence).