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	<title>Comments on: On Saudi Students and Hijab in France</title>
	<atom:link href="http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/</link>
	<description>Rants and Raves from Saudi Arabia</description>
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		<title>By: Amina</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/#comment-20970</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amina]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.wordpress.com/?p=1729#comment-20970</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is stupid and rediculous. How close minded so many people here are. The HIJAB IS NOT A SAUDI FREAKIN GARMENT!!! Its is a RELIGIOUS garment that is worn AROUND THE WORLD. ISLAMIC laws are NOT SAUDI laws, they are RELIGIOUS LAWS. I get how some people might find hijab to be a cultural thing as it is a different form of clothing from the others-clothing is often cultural (not in this case) but PRAYING FIVE TIMES A DAY IS AN ACT OF FAITH. HOW DARE YOU EVEN SAY ITS CULTURAL. IDIOTS!!!!! LEARN about ISLAM before you freakin JUDGE IDIOTS!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is stupid and rediculous. How close minded so many people here are. The HIJAB IS NOT A SAUDI FREAKIN GARMENT!!! Its is a RELIGIOUS garment that is worn AROUND THE WORLD. ISLAMIC laws are NOT SAUDI laws, they are RELIGIOUS LAWS. I get how some people might find hijab to be a cultural thing as it is a different form of clothing from the others-clothing is often cultural (not in this case) but PRAYING FIVE TIMES A DAY IS AN ACT OF FAITH. HOW DARE YOU EVEN SAY ITS CULTURAL. IDIOTS!!!!! LEARN about ISLAM before you freakin JUDGE IDIOTS!</p>
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		<title>By: Islam Ali Mohammad</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/#comment-20306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Islam Ali Mohammad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.wordpress.com/?p=1729#comment-20306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[our muslim sisters love to wear hijab so they must be allowed to wear it in any part of the world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>our muslim sisters love to wear hijab so they must be allowed to wear it in any part of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Hijab styles</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/#comment-19878</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hijab styles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.wordpress.com/?p=1729#comment-19878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hijab and our right and choice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hijab and our right and choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Cecilia</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/#comment-16843</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cecilia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.wordpress.com/?p=1729#comment-16843</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello Ahmed,

You point out an interesting point of conflict in this post: that legislation in different nations sometimes affects Muslims on a symbolic level. The hijab has come to mean many different things to the Westerner and Muslim alike. Challenging the right to wear the hijab is a challenge to many other religious rights and is also reminiscent of the colonialist behavior. 
I was in Denmark in 2006 when the cartoons of Muhammad were published. To many Westerners, both the dispute over wearing the hijab and publishing the cartoons seem trivial. However, pulling the blinds on Europe and the United States would reveal an unwillingness to examine past action in the Middle East and to uncover exactly why these disputes are so volatile. In Denmark it would also, sadly, show an extreme misunderstanding of Muslim values and an increase in a form of nationalism that feels threatened by such foreign ideals. I would hope that the students you write about who are studying abroad are trying to bridge this gap and educate the West!
I really enjoyed reading your blog, and your perspective as a Saudi student!
Thank you,

Cecilia]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Ahmed,</p>
<p>You point out an interesting point of conflict in this post: that legislation in different nations sometimes affects Muslims on a symbolic level. The hijab has come to mean many different things to the Westerner and Muslim alike. Challenging the right to wear the hijab is a challenge to many other religious rights and is also reminiscent of the colonialist behavior.<br />
I was in Denmark in 2006 when the cartoons of Muhammad were published. To many Westerners, both the dispute over wearing the hijab and publishing the cartoons seem trivial. However, pulling the blinds on Europe and the United States would reveal an unwillingness to examine past action in the Middle East and to uncover exactly why these disputes are so volatile. In Denmark it would also, sadly, show an extreme misunderstanding of Muslim values and an increase in a form of nationalism that feels threatened by such foreign ideals. I would hope that the students you write about who are studying abroad are trying to bridge this gap and educate the West!<br />
I really enjoyed reading your blog, and your perspective as a Saudi student!<br />
Thank you,</p>
<p>Cecilia</p>
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		<title>By: Boyd R. Jones</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/#comment-14566</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boyd R. Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.wordpress.com/?p=1729#comment-14566</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know there is a lot to debate between my home country (the USA) and parts of the Muslim World, but I would just like to state that the U.S. Constitution and the First Amendment (Right of Free Speech and Religion) would make any sort of Turkish or French hijab ban impossible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know there is a lot to debate between my home country (the USA) and parts of the Muslim World, but I would just like to state that the U.S. Constitution and the First Amendment (Right of Free Speech and Religion) would make any sort of Turkish or French hijab ban impossible.</p>
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		<title>By: Irfan</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/#comment-14560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Irfan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 04:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.wordpress.com/?p=1729#comment-14560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aah, good to see kaktuz leaving crazy messages on this blog also. However, fear not. Because not all us Aussies are as crazy as he.

The position taken by this blog is one I&#039;ve never read on any blog emanating from a Muslim-majority state. I guess what you&#039;re advocating is a strict &quot;rule of law&quot; approach to this.

And if there is a ban on wearing hijab in certain places, surely the solution is to avoid such places if you regard wearing the hijab as essential to your lifestyle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aah, good to see kaktuz leaving crazy messages on this blog also. However, fear not. Because not all us Aussies are as crazy as he.</p>
<p>The position taken by this blog is one I&#8217;ve never read on any blog emanating from a Muslim-majority state. I guess what you&#8217;re advocating is a strict &#8220;rule of law&#8221; approach to this.</p>
<p>And if there is a ban on wearing hijab in certain places, surely the solution is to avoid such places if you regard wearing the hijab as essential to your lifestyle.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/#comment-14536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.wordpress.com/?p=1729#comment-14536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PS: Before anyone says &quot;well, Saudi Arabia is the home of Islam so it has the right to prevent non-Muslims from practicing certain customs&quot; I&#039;d like to underscore my rejection that the country of Saudi Arabia itself is the seat of Islam. The Saudi people could have their holy cities and shut out all non-Muslims while still allowing their Catholic maids to go to mass in Dammam. The problem here is that the Saudi government uses Islam as a shield for their own power. If I were a Muslim I&#039;d be offended by this -- from putting the Shahada on the national flag to the judges using and abusing Islam to justify horrendous tribal rulings that have more ot do with the culture of the Arabian Peninsula than with Islam itself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS: Before anyone says &#8220;well, Saudi Arabia is the home of Islam so it has the right to prevent non-Muslims from practicing certain customs&#8221; I&#8217;d like to underscore my rejection that the country of Saudi Arabia itself is the seat of Islam. The Saudi people could have their holy cities and shut out all non-Muslims while still allowing their Catholic maids to go to mass in Dammam. The problem here is that the Saudi government uses Islam as a shield for their own power. If I were a Muslim I&#8217;d be offended by this &#8212; from putting the Shahada on the national flag to the judges using and abusing Islam to justify horrendous tribal rulings that have more ot do with the culture of the Arabian Peninsula than with Islam itself.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/#comment-14535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.wordpress.com/?p=1729#comment-14535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As far as I can tell, hospitals don&#039;t allow their staff to wear head coverings they bring from home due to the little problem with hospital-acquired infections. This is hygienic issue -- French non-Muslim medical interns cannot wear baseball hats -- and to work around it would require these medical schools to accommodate Muslim women by providing perhaps sterilized fabrics (like those hair nets they wear in surgery). Perhaps Muslim women can simply choose to wear those nets all the time if they&#039;re so concerned about their male colleagues admiring their immense beauty in a lewd fashion. (Or they can get over themselves and if they choose to enter the secular medical science community -- play by the rules of hygiene like everyone else. Or do they expect to wear their home clothing into surgery unlike everyone else?) 

Burgess is right: this is a different issue than hijab in French (public) secondary and elementary schools. Muslims may have a legitimate right to allow their children to wear hijab in public secondary and primary schools in France, but they should also understand the French culture and customs and if they can&#039;t accept it don&#039;t go there. Why do Westerners always have to accommodate but if they say &quot;there are our cultural customs based on secular social contract&quot; they get criticized as &quot;Islamophobic&quot;? I think the river flows both directions: when I am in the Arab world I respect the customs even if I find some of them disagreeable. Hiding behind the alleged righteousness of religious dogma doesn&#039;t give people any more license to try to change other cultures than it would for secularists to try to impose secular Humanistic values and customs on cultures that reject them. 

In a secular Humanistic society like Franch, orthodox Muslims are free to create their own religious private schools as long as they&#039;re accredited and abide by the laws. That&#039;s the beauty of a liberal society. Saudis in particular have no room to complain since their own society does not guarantee these rights to non-Muslims.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I can tell, hospitals don&#8217;t allow their staff to wear head coverings they bring from home due to the little problem with hospital-acquired infections. This is hygienic issue &#8212; French non-Muslim medical interns cannot wear baseball hats &#8212; and to work around it would require these medical schools to accommodate Muslim women by providing perhaps sterilized fabrics (like those hair nets they wear in surgery). Perhaps Muslim women can simply choose to wear those nets all the time if they&#8217;re so concerned about their male colleagues admiring their immense beauty in a lewd fashion. (Or they can get over themselves and if they choose to enter the secular medical science community &#8212; play by the rules of hygiene like everyone else. Or do they expect to wear their home clothing into surgery unlike everyone else?) </p>
<p>Burgess is right: this is a different issue than hijab in French (public) secondary and elementary schools. Muslims may have a legitimate right to allow their children to wear hijab in public secondary and primary schools in France, but they should also understand the French culture and customs and if they can&#8217;t accept it don&#8217;t go there. Why do Westerners always have to accommodate but if they say &#8220;there are our cultural customs based on secular social contract&#8221; they get criticized as &#8220;Islamophobic&#8221;? I think the river flows both directions: when I am in the Arab world I respect the customs even if I find some of them disagreeable. Hiding behind the alleged righteousness of religious dogma doesn&#8217;t give people any more license to try to change other cultures than it would for secularists to try to impose secular Humanistic values and customs on cultures that reject them. </p>
<p>In a secular Humanistic society like Franch, orthodox Muslims are free to create their own religious private schools as long as they&#8217;re accredited and abide by the laws. That&#8217;s the beauty of a liberal society. Saudis in particular have no room to complain since their own society does not guarantee these rights to non-Muslims.</p>
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		<title>By: believer of choice</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/#comment-14532</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[believer of choice]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.wordpress.com/?p=1729#comment-14532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When my wife can choose not to wear an abaya, then criticism of France is acceptable, but not before.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When my wife can choose not to wear an abaya, then criticism of France is acceptable, but not before.</p>
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		<title>By: Broken Wing</title>
		<link>http://saudijeans.org/2008/06/10/saudi-students-hijab-france/#comment-14531</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Broken Wing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 06:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saudijeans.wordpress.com/?p=1729#comment-14531</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is interesting. I am not agreeing with you, yet not disagreeing either. The French had every right to ban whatever it is they want to ban. In Rome, do as the Romans right? ;) . I understand why they want to ban hijab (or, i think i do), and i also understand that Saudi woman should oblige to that rule.. because if they didn&#039;t want to follow the rules, they don&#039;t have to, they can stay at home.. but what i don&#039;t understand is that this &quot;understanding of rules&quot; is not reciprocal! 
If we are to respect their rules.. why can&#039;t they respect ours? I understand Saudi isn&#039;t perfect, but we have rules which we know is a necessity in our country, but in which they look upon it as mediocre ! 
How are we supposed to have a mutual understanding, if they look at us as idiots and them as superiors ??? 
I just don&#039;t understand that...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting. I am not agreeing with you, yet not disagreeing either. The French had every right to ban whatever it is they want to ban. In Rome, do as the Romans right? ;) . I understand why they want to ban hijab (or, i think i do), and i also understand that Saudi woman should oblige to that rule.. because if they didn&#8217;t want to follow the rules, they don&#8217;t have to, they can stay at home.. but what i don&#8217;t understand is that this &#8220;understanding of rules&#8221; is not reciprocal!<br />
If we are to respect their rules.. why can&#8217;t they respect ours? I understand Saudi isn&#8217;t perfect, but we have rules which we know is a necessity in our country, but in which they look upon it as mediocre !<br />
How are we supposed to have a mutual understanding, if they look at us as idiots and them as superiors ???<br />
I just don&#8217;t understand that&#8230;</p>
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