Sanctity of Human Life

A boy and a girl have died in a horrific car accident after being chased by a patrol that belongs to the Commission for Propagation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice in the northern city of Tabuk. In the details, the Toyota Camry of the boy was completely crushed under a large truck on Medina-Tabuk Rd during his attempt to escape from the Commission’s patrol.

This tragic incident is the latest in a series of highly publicized cases involving the Commission during the past two years that resulted in the death of citizens, such as the case of Salman Al Huraisi who died during a raid on his house in Riyadh last year as well as the case of Saud Al Balawi who died in the Commission center in Tabuk after he was arrested for giving a ride to an unrelated old woman.

I don’t want to talk about the apparent recklessness and brutality in these cases. I don’t want to talk about the number of violations on local laws and basic human rights committed in these cases. Because I will be stating the obvious. Instead, I just want to say a few words about another aspect here, which is the absence of any sign of respect to humanity.

I think that one the most important things these stories show is the blatant disregard for human life and dignity. Even if the Commission members were acting within their legal rights, the outcomes of their actions have been disastrous. Yet, none of these incidents has seen the Commission admit that any mistakes have been made or apologize to the families of those who died, directly or indirectly, on the hands of the Commission members.

This holier than though attitude is disgusting and is incompatible with the message the Commission try to promote of guarding Islamic values and protecting morality in public. How can they make such claim when they show absolute disrespect to the sanctity of human life?

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62 thoughts on “Sanctity of Human Life

  1. So you think that if the boy wasn’t doing something he knew was illegal, why did he run away and kill the poor girl in the process?
    I think the boys family should be responsable for his actions that resulted in the girls death.
    The CPVPV were upholding the law just as the police and army do. It was the boys action that resulted in this tragedy, don’t try to shift the blame and play this as another chapter in your attack on the CPVPV novel.

  2. To understand why things go out of hands, look at the way the members of CPVPV are thinking, they all think they are protecting Islam and doing a great thing for God’s sake, they strive to fulfill their mission even if it means trespassing the rules placed by mankind… and here is the trick, how to convince them that they are doing something against Islam by following people in their vehicles, homes and private areas… you’ll see that -even from the answer of Saudi Patriot- that put the blame on the boy- that the values of virtues are higher than the human lives!!! quite ironic in our culture, I pit that what was going on on the boy’s mind when he sped to death… did he ever consider he’ll have a chance of being released afterward with the girl without a scandal? Islam ordered us to promote tolerance on such incidents, but as a I heard once, who is the new prophet after Mohammad that we are following now?

  3. It is a shame and has nothing to do with patriotism nor religion.

    The CPVPV have blood on their hands and should review the way in which such issues are dealt with.

  4. I know some people who would take rides from strangers to save money. I have heard of nice people giving strangers rides. I personally wouldn’t do it being raised in America. I am always weary someone wants to abduct me, chop me up into pieces and store me in their fridge. It appears that in Saudi what should be feared is religious zealots speeding the streets.

    So much hate in this world!

  5. What a horrible report. Those poor people and their families!

    The commission for the prevention of virtue and the propagation of vice are a bunch of hypocrites: so many stories of them causing deaths. And then to have the nerve to excuse themselves! They are evil.

    Sparky: I have given strangers a ride on occasion: when I thought they really needed help. But it is a dangerous thing to do.

  6. i think harsh ideologues of every stripe elevate enforcement above life itself, whether they be islamic, christian, nontheist, or any other kind. in the minds of these ones, enforcement of ideological purity escapes into its own self-referential realm.

  7. It’s ashame that such an act would go unpunished! The members of CPVPV who were responsible should be held accountable for sure.

    However, I wounder if it was two accused Saudi Guys with beards basically “mutawaas” (accused and not proven guilty) were the ones who died in an accident because they were chased by the police or the Saudi intelligence, would you be talking about respect to humanity. Maybe they deserve it maybe not, I am only talking about technicality here.

    That my friend makes the difference between a person who is loyal and cares about Saudi, and another who was oppressed and full of aggression therefore trashing everything, literally everything about the country in the name of reform… :)

  8. Wow! So this site is indeed frequented by kids and emotionally immature adults.
    If you were to take a good look at the facts (in this case) like any professional person would. You would find that your arguments are invalid. Who disregarded the value of human life, was it the CPVPV or the boy driving the car.
    By your logic, it would be better for the police and army to turn a blind eye and leave criminals and terrorists to roam free.
    Fact 1: He broke the law.
    Fact 2: His actions in fleeing the scene caused the death of the poor girl with him.

    You people are exactly like those who blame ALL the Jews for the acts of a few extremists.
    The CPVPV is working for the greater good, and your hate speeches will not deter these brave men from their patriotic duty.

  9. Saudi Patriot:

    You make valid points, but how about they enlist people in the CPVPV of higher quality. They should be wise, patient, intelligent, and trained. These people are usually rude, act like they’re in a war of the worlds lol, and have a disregard for any other views different from theirs.

    For example chasing that car with the boy and girl at full speed what did it solve? nothing at all. Their judgment is extremely flawed by their “get em all” war mentality. What if they killed an innocent family during that chase?

  10. Muhammad:
    Finally a sane voice, as an alternative to these monstrous replies which ‘talk’ democracy but only seek to silence anyone who doesn’t share their agenda. They are worse than the worst part of the group they are attacking.
    Ahmad may have had a point in some of his earlier postings. But the only thing he did here was harm his cause. The fault lies %100 with the boy. And no one even mentioned the poor truck driver and the damage to his rig. Who will fix that?
    Human life is valuable, what the boy did was inexcusable. If some criminal who broke the law was pursued by the police and tried to escape then ran over, oh let’s say, Ahmed in the process. Do you think Ahmad’s family would blame the police or the criminal?
    An innocent girl was killed, who’s actions caused that?
    Leave your teen-hormone enhanced emotions aside. Who caused this?

  11. Saudi Patriot:
    While the boy is far from blameless, the CPVPV people who initiated the chase share part of the responsibility. They acted in a heavy handed way that only succeeded in escalating the situation. For one, the were not even *supposed * to try to arrest him. It’s not their job to enforce. That’s the job of the police. They should’ve contacted the proper authorities (as is proper procedure) and relayed the responsibility to *them*. These people are not trained for this kind of situation. For instance, a trained policeman would not have started a chase over something like this. He would’ve simply taken the boy’s license plate number and description, then tracked him down and arrested him while he was not in such an agitated frame of mind and not a danger to himself and those around him. That’s the proper way the real police would’ve done it. The danger of the CPVPV is that they think they are above things such as the law, which makes them no better than a gang of outlaw vigilantes. Vigilantes might be cool in comics and movies, but not in the real world.

  12. This is to Saudi Patriot,
    Plz don’t forget that we are all Saudis and Muslims, immature adults or teens still have a right to speak up their opinions…we don’t have to have the same view points, this is a free-open discussion, I may change my views by reading an enlightening response or a more convincing opinion or not, forceful and demeaning accusation that other opinions are faulty or worthless is not the way to do do…Yes, the boy commit a wrong thing, then sped and killed himself and the girl, but what was the motivation? he was scared!!! he didn’t want the men to catch him and have a scandal, he was afraid of the scandal more than the speed and death…Is it religious to enforce chasing even if the speed is out of hand & the situation is getting more dangerous?…If he was a criminal, then trained Police staff is supposed to be following him not anyone else!! you see, the police wouldn’t have followed him unless there is an evidence of a wrong doing, a tangible evidence…ادرؤوا الحدود بالشبهات يا أخي

  13. I TOTALLY AGREE with “Saudi Patriot.” Boy got crushed …. TOO BAD …

    Moral of the story is “DON’T BREAK THE LAW”

    These high speed chases and accident are no mystery to the west. You can see them on TV all the time. There is NO country in the west where law enforcement agency wouldn’t “chase”/”try to chase” a person running from the law for WHATEVER reason.

    Tell me cops in US or Europe would let a “POTENTIAL” criminal go for “SANCTITY OF LIFE” ??? GROW UP KIDS!!!!

  14. Cops in Europe responsible for the death of even a major homicidal criminal would be in deep shit. A suspect for a minor offence dying would be the end of the officers job, freedom and much more.

    One wonders why people (there have been more of these ”accidents”) would risk potential death above being ”caught” by the commission for the prevention of virtue and the promotion of vice.
    Who, by the way, have no right to ”catch” anybody. Nor do they have the right to stripsearch businesswomen, nor do they have the right to lock people up, nor do they have the right to beat men to death, nor do they have the right to crash a woman’s car, and leave her and her daughters in the crashed car alone.

    There are just no words to express the misbehaviour of the religious police. Their eyes, hearts and minds are covered and blind.
    God is merciful and compassionate.
    But don’t expect it of the religious police, they know better than God.

    And that’s why people who might have been doing some minor mischief risk death over the religious police.
    And after all; events have shown that it is not sure wether the encounter would leave you alive anyway.

  15. It is surprising and shocking to see that how saudijeans has transferred the blame on the Commission. The Commission patrol was just doing its job i.e. to promote virtue and to stop vice. This means that even if assume, for argument’s sake, that the boy had kidnapped a girl, the Commission should have let him run away. That is completely wrong. If the boy was right, he should have stopped and let the commission interrogate. Indeed, if the girl was not being kidnapped, the boy should have been punished by allowing a non-mehram sit in his car for luxury purposes. If she was in emergency, for example needed to go to the hospital, then I would show sympathy with the boy’s motives. In any case we dont know what happened and what not. I pray for the blessings of Allah on the deceased. And please do not put blames on the authorities.
    Ma Salam

  16. I agree with Aafke. My immediate thought while reading some o’ the responses supporting the legality of the chase is to mention how even in the States: deaths resulting from police car chases are highly controversial and hardly any sympathy is given to the cops.

    There are strict guidelines about what should and should not be done during a chase, and to which extent should the chase proceed. No denial that who commit the chase are humans, and sometimes the chase can end up from being a legal procedure, to personal challenge.

    Car chases do not only risk the chaser and the chasee, they risk other vheichles in the streets and the safety of neighbourhoods. We have police in Saudi and we have the comission of vice. In my opinion the latter should report suspecious activity, the first should do the chasing. Until something better can be done with the whole commission issue of course!

  17. N A and Katatonia:
    Yes the boy was breaking the law and the CPVPV witnessed it. Good. They should’ve done the right thing; call the police and let *them* handle it. The ministry of interior has forbidden the CPVPV from doing arrests on their own. So in chasing the boy themselves the CPVPV was taking the law (again) into its own hands. The fact that this breach of law (and common sense) resulted in death is the reason for the outrage.

    And police anywhere (US, Europe or anywhere) wouldn’t give a *high speed car chase* unless the criminal was considered a danger to other people, which the boy wasn’t. Don’t believe everything you see on MBC Action. In fact, our own police force is under orders to *never* start a car chase before getting permission from the higher ups. Go ask a policeman.

  18. SALAAMZ ALL
    The first question that arises in my mind is that
    how can anyone blame the CPVPV for this………This whole website looks like a propaganda campaign against them………Ok maybe if it was a police car it would have been better ……..but even then if the boy had ended up crashin then im sure noone would have written the above artricle……bcuz it was normal for them……….this whole issue is being blown out of proportion and an impartial view must be established not a biased one……

  19. I don’t want to go over the points I made before as this is exactly how some try to tire anyone who opposes them.

    S.UTTA,
    This IS a propaganda site against the CPVPV, I never commented before as there were vague areas. But this time he has gone too far. And seeing that there are few English site to refute the outrageous allegations against these brave men. There are people in the USA who speak against the FBI, an establishment which upholds the law and acts for the greater good in that country.

    My final point:

    Being too lenient with criminals will transfer this great land into a safe haven for chaos and terrorism which would result in a greater loss of life. Criminals should know as a fact that fleeing from authorities will only cause greater harm to them.

    I pray for the poor girl and her family.

  20. I can see where people would state that if the boy and girl simply followed the law, then this would not have happened. Laws are set in place to restrict, to protect, etc (for varying reasons). However, when the law is unjust, you as an individual and a society are obligated to change it. This law prohibiting unrelated couples being together is unjust (in the eyes of most in this global society), and for such a small “crime,” to result in such horrific tragedy, does speak volumes about the sanctity of human life. These two weren’t murderers, they were simply together. There is a huge difference.

    Just because we don’t agree with what the committee does doesn’t mean that we don’t understand why they do it. But, as the government and their lackey’s continually violate human rights, we have to speak out against it. If we don’t, who will?

  21. Salaamz
    to maya
    These small breaches may look small to u but these laws r not built by man…………they r divine…….if we research im sure we ill find it better for the society………….do remember plz ksa is essentially a muslim country and will always be like that inshahlah

  22. Saudi Patriot

    It does not take brave men to run down children.
    Likewise, please show me where unrelated members of the opposite sex being together unchaperoned leads to chaos and terrorism.

    You made the claim, let’s back it up.

  23. Maya: no, since Saudi is an islamic state, the law forbidding two non-mehrams to sit together is not unjust. Dont bring the global laws. We all have seen the potency of global laws. So I would suggest you to stop “globalizing” Saudi as it would result in further chaos. For us the global laws are unjust. So I dont see your point to hold any ground.

  24. Katatonia…Maya wasnt globalizing!! Come on..Lets get real here..The boy did commit a crime so did the girl..Ok!!..But there are many ways to arrest them..Call for back-up..Jot down the car plate no.But not embark on a wild car chase…It could have turned out real ugly with not just 2 victims but more….They broke the law but did they really deserve to die??..Did they??..
    Saudi Patriot
    Since you are all for the Abiding by the law..Why is it that you are blaming the boy only and not the girl…Who knows …Maybe she didnt want a scandal!!!!..

  25. The boy had the gun(car) not the girl, it was his responsibility. As a father of two young girls that I trust to go out on their own. I find the actions of the boy disgusting.
    Why do you assume that I said they deserve to die? Maybe that is what your twisted logic tells you.
    What I stated was that the actions of the boy led to his suicide and the murder of the girl and the financial loss of the truck driver as well as threatening the lives of countless people.
    The law is the law. If someone stopped paying taxes in the USA they will be pursed and arrested as much as any criminal. You cannot trivialize any sort of crime.
    there are two parts here you need to understand:
    One: The boy broke the law of the land. Plain and simple. Would you sympathize with an American arrested for marrying two women? Until this law is revoked, it is still a law. There is no such thing as a small law. If a judge let someone off because they broke into your apartment and messed around with your stuff but didn’t steal anything, would you be OK with that?
    TWO: And this is the big point that people do not understand, the CPVPV had nothing to do with their deaths. Heck, if it was a police car chasing them on suspicion of kidnapping, the boy would have still done what he done, they would still have died, and Ahmed would have not brought any attention to the incident since it doesn’t fit with the theme of this site. If the girl had been kidnapped, she would have been raped by seven people and murdered and the boy would have claimed that the car was stolen that day. Now you understand why I call the men of CPVPV brave? Because they are risking their lives every day for the greater good.
    The Boy should have stopped and try to lie his way out of the situation instead of killing that poor girl. I am blaming the boy becuase he was driving.

  26. Ok..My Twisted Logic Sense got what you meant…

    But tell me..Was it right what they did to Yara??Was it right to deny her calling her husband??.Was it right to humiliate her in public??.Would you have accepted if it were any of your daughters instead??.Would you??..
    Let me Remind you ..Iam not against CPVPV but on how they go about doing their job…

  27. Hannah…of course it wasn’t right in those cases.
    I act by logic. You can complain the police gave you a wrongful speeding ticket, but you can’t call for the police force to be dissolved. Other people who were really speeding caused deaths.
    What I find disturbing that most of those who attack the CPVPV relentlessly were in fact committers of vice themselves who were caught and punished by the CPVPV. They are on a path of vengeance fueled by spite. I acknowledge that they made mistakes, some of which are grave. But the establishment is just as essential as the police and army. They are countering moral terrorism which eats away at society.
    I commented on this post for a reason, the rest of you should not drag what was said in others.
    If you want, you can leave a comment in one of the many posts on this site per specific case.

  28. “They are countering moral terrorism which eats away at society.”…. Sorrry I didnt get you here….Who is countering moral terrorism??..

  29. The CPVPV, or to write their full title:
    Commission for Propagation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice
    They were commissioned by the King of Saudi Arabia himself by the way.

  30. Saudi Patriot:

    While the boy may have indeed been breaking the law, there was this little tidbit in the article regarding this incident:

    “As per law, commission members are directed not to engage in car chases whether on highways or within city limits. Their responsibility ends with reporting to the police information concerning runaway suspect’s car, license plate and the location of the alleged violation.”

    Now, being a Westerner, I will never understand an entity such as the CPVPV. It is anathema to everything I believe in. That said, as I have personally seen here in the States as well, one cannot absolve responsibility of a driver when they behave recklessly.

    Yes, the boy was behind the wheel, and therefore carries the lion’s share of the blame, but it appears that the CPVPV should not have instigated the chase in the first place. The preservation and protection of all human life is, I would think, a virtue as well. Perhaps if the CPVPV was not so dogmatic and tunnel-visioned in the performance of their duties, this carnage would not have happened in the first place?

  31. hanna: indeed I am saddened by the loss of two lives. They could have repented, if they were living. They could have praised God, if they were living. What more could a Muslim want?! But the desire of Saudis to altogether throw Islamic values into the gutter also hurts me. Instead they should strive for moderation. Thats all I wanted to say.
    Peace.

  32. I heard about this site today on “The World” from Public Radio International. I’m grateful for an opportunity to learn more about Saudi Arabia and how it’s people think and feel about their country. I enjoyed the posts and all of your comments.

    Interesting situation about the police chase. Seems that everyone involved could and should have acted more responsibly. Let’s hope the authorities learn from it and adjust their response next time. May comfort be with the families mourning the loss of a loved one.

  33. For those that are saying as Saudi Arabia is an Islamic country and therefore must be under shariah.. please show where in the Quran it lists any punishment for two unrelated members of the opposite sex being together.

    These are laws given for the individual to follow, not for the government to demand and prosecute if not followed. The obvious ills will befall these people if they choose to take their relations further, but it not the government’s right to prohibit them from socialization.

    Remember, the more restrictions you have, the less virtuous your society is. I prefer to not delude myself into thinking my society is pure just because the law is restrictive and people choose to call themselves Muslims.

  34. Saudi Patriot,
    Terrorism as defined by Merriam Webster is : the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.

    Please show where two people being alone together is a systematic use of terror as a means of coercion.

    Last time I looked, the CPVPV fit the bill more than any individual.

    You give these people too much credit. You assume they take these jobs to make people Islam, when they may just be abusing this power because they are nearly all powerful.
    Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    Think about it.

  35. Once again Saudi Patriot (and all CPVPV supporters really), continue to (willfully?) ignore the simple fact that the outrage was because the CPVPV overstepped their boundaries again. Like many have posted, again and again, by *law* the CPVPV are not to engage in chases or indeed arrest people. They are only to report to the police who will do the right thing. Even if it had ended in the same way, people won’t talk (that much) because the police were after all just doing their jobs. But if the police were handling the matter a chase wouldn’t have occurred anyway. There are many ways for a policeman to apprehend a felon; tracking down the license plate, setting up checkpoints … etc, that are simply not available to the CPVPV.

    Saudi Patriot, you litter your posts with the word *law*, yet the when the CPVPV are breaking it and brought to task for it and rightly criticized you interpret this to mean that we are attacking the establishment of Islam itself. We are not. I do believe that the CPVPV can have an active role in Saudi society, but only if they abandon their strong handed ways and practice more tolerance and stop assuming the worst in people (something Islam teaches us).

  36. Salaamz
    It seems that u ppl have stopped believin in islamic traditions…………..tha hadiths r an essentiial source of islam…..The Prophet(pb.u.h) has even said that it is better to hammer a nail in ur head then to touch a woman………so obviously……..these hadiths show that the head of the state must do anythin he can to ensure that islam is established to the full……..which in this case will be to empower the cpvpv so that they can at least do dawah and spread awareness…..
    salaamz

  37. “..the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion”
    When countless women, married or about to be, are threatened by a former ‘boyfriend’ who secretly took photographs and taped conversations to terrorizes them into continuing a sexual relationship and even to offer them to his friends. That’s moral terrorism.
    When a bunch of guys go into a mall and harass women and practically force them to take their phone numbers. That’s moral terrorism.
    When maids are kidnapped and forced to work as sex slaves. That’s moral terrorism.
    And don’t tell me that it is the polices duty in these cases, the police are already understaffed and most cases don’t apply to their jurisdiction.
    It is obvious that some of you have a stubborn mindset and will only listen to what you want to hear. Until you learn to condemn the bad and praise the good, this will not be a discussion. If you read the post above, you can see that Ahmed is indeed only set on attacking the CPVPV establishment with no mention of their merits. The merits the good King had in mind when giving them their authority.
    This can go on forever, and I have a 3 month training trip to Tabuk tomorrow, a city I hope still appreciates the role of this great government agency whatever minor flaws it my have.

  38. Saudi Patriot:

    Those examples you cited truly are moral terrorism. So what? We already know the CPVPV can have a function in society. So does the police and other enforcement agencies. Does that mean they should be above the law? Does that mean they should abuse their power to enforce what *they* see as right? Is terrorizing a populace really the best way to enforce Islamic teachings? When, in the long history of Islam, has such an agency been employed?

    Understaffed they might be, it is *still* the police’s job. The law says so. The law is above you, above me, above the police, and yes above the CPVPV.

    Praising the good in people is all nice and dandy, but when you have a governmental agency who are under such close scrutiny, who wield so much power, people *will* mob them if the misstep. Especially when they seem to be adamant that they walk on water and have done no wrong. They ask people not to judge them when the appoint themselves judge. They ask people not to jump to conclusions, when they themselves jump to conclusions all the time.

    If we do not criticize the CPVPV, and indeed if they do not learn from their mistakes and stop their holier than thou attitude, then the CPVPV is doomed to death by hubris.

  39. Well, I think Saudi Jawa Summed it all up…

    Katatonia..We arent trying to throw away our islamic valuesbut Islam is all about peace..all are tolerance…all about forgiveness.. If the CPVPV are indeed trying to prevent vice they have to do it in a more dignified manner…Its how you go about doing it than what needs to be done…
    Saudi Patriot…”The merits the good King had in mind when giving them their authority.”…Its safe to say they didnt reach his expectations..

  40. Again and again and again, I will say it until you acknowledge it. The CPVPV are NOT above the law. They are exercising their authority, but when a very small percentage go over that line, you cannot blame the establishment and call for its disbandment.
    If some US Air Marshall tackles an Indian for saying ‘Alhamdullilah’ on a plane and beats him up, would you say that all Air Marshalls should be fired and the protection of airplanes should be handed over to the police?
    No, the person who overstepped their authority should be punished, and the establishment should continue with its mission.

    Today it was announced that there were 12000 reported crimes regarding vice and morality last year, ranging from rape to prostitution and so on. Dissolve the CPVPV and you will be sending a clear message that the supporters of vice have won and they are free to do as they wish. I and many others will not let those floodgates open. May I remind you that prostitution is illegal in the USA and there is a vive department that deals with those cases.

    You made a great suggestion which I will most certainly bring up in the next meeting at the government department I work for. By increasing the integration between the police and CPVPV the authority of the CPVPV will increase and that will ease their jobs, as every policeman will in part be a CPVPV member. I thank you for that.

  41. I hope we don’t exceed fifty comments, since we’d be repeating ourselves silly.

    First of all, this is clearly an emotionally-charged subject and I agree that the comments here reflect the commenters’ deeply-embedded, historic grievances than what actually happened on that fateful day on a highway up north.

    But let’s all set emotions aside for awhile, shall we? I want to dissect the problem to its basic core. Everyone should state whether they have an issue with the CPVPV’s Function or Actions or Staff.

    Function? They are not a mob of vigilantes; they are an authority employed by the government. Mistakes do, and will always happen, but for now we’re dealing with approving or disapproving their very existence: their Function. I for one, have deep personal disdain for doctors. I feel (justifiably or not) they have a holier than thou attitude. I feel they think they are either above the law or that they will always get a slap on the wrist for any death or pain they incur on their patients. Yet I am sane enough not demand they be abolished. I don’t jump on every opportunity of a publicized incident and shout “They Have Blood On Their Hands!” And I doubt that anyone who attacks the CPVPV is automatically dubbed a “Pro Vice” immoral individual. Even the author of this blog would scream for their help if his loved ones were being viciously attacked by a mob of serial rapists and the All Mighty Police were either non existent or opted to just take the car number instead and wait for backup rather than risk their own lives.

    As for the second issue, “Actions”; I would never give a blanket judgment on a group unless I have clear, complete, and accurate data. I would be tempted to declare all police officers (who I dislike as much as doctors) to be morally corrupt and hopelessly incompetent not basing this on true accurate data but on my ‘feelings’ towards them in my daily encounters. A very flawed method as any reasonable person would tell you.

    Third, the “Staff”. Again, and again, people would give blanket judgment on ALL the CPVPV. That’s where some sanity is needed in the discussion. That’s where people reveal their true colors and subconscious intentions. If the staffing and recruiting is the problem for some people, then changing the complete CPVPC workforce is the solution. Not eliminating the Function. For the sake of argument, if we replace the current workforce with people from Sweden (albeit Swedish Muslims with Saudi accents and PhDs in Shariah), or any preferred nationality, then nobody will ever complain about the existence of the CPVCP (except to the ‘regular’ level of complaints against teachers, doctors, taxi drivers, etc). And while on the Staff: Does anyone believe for a second that the CPVCP members involved in the car chase are happy and high fiving each other about he incident? Come on! We enjoy stripping others of their humanity only to turn back and lecture them about NOT stripping people of their humanity?

    Of course there are those who would argue that there should never be a Vice Police to begin with. Not here. Not in the U.S. Not anywhere on earth. People should be ‘trusted’ to do what is right; Islamically or globally or whatever. Maybe they have a point: if all the functions of the current CPVPV are carried out efficiently by the police then they become one and the same. Haters of the CPVPV would gladly be arrested, jailed, clubbed, humiliated by the police then by the CPVPV who, incidentally, didn’t invent a set of laws not covered by the general law of the land.

    And to end this on lighter note, here’s some food for thought: how many of you have heard of Citizen’s Arrest. It’s not just in the U.S. Many countries have provisions for it. Not just ‘taking the car number’ and calling “The Police”, but actually making the arrest on the spot. In Australia, for example, the law actually: “allows for the use of such force as is reasonably necessary to make the arrest or to prevent the escape of the person after arrest.”

    Maybe we should recruit Australian citizens.

  42. Wisdom Lover is correct, we are repeating ourselves. So I’ll just add a comment to Saudi Patriot’s reply.

    Even if we take it in stride that the chasers were the exception rather than the rule, the Commission isn’t doing itself any favors by its reflexive defensiveness. Whenever a problem like this arrises, the CPVPV immidiately puts up its fists and deny any wrongdoings on the part of its members and dares anyone to deny it. When the responsible reaction is to take a neutral (at least) stance and admit that some of its members are overzealous, start an investigation, and deliver punishment should the parties in question deserve it.

    It’s not the function of the CPVPV itself that people mind. It’s the high and mighty mentality of the CPVPV. A little humility would go leaps and bounds into winning them affection and acceptance, NOT more power.

  43. They broke the law. So fucking what? If theyare laws that are based on boderline psycotic teachings, I sure as hell am going to break them. The boy had no choice but to run, these people humilate you, degrade you, and make you feel ashamed for simply mingling with the opposite sex. I am disgusted with the state of things in Saudi, it appears hypocrisy and religon go hand in hand. Enough is enough, why should we take it anymore? Who’s buisness is it if I choose to let my wife/daughter/sister mingle with my male friends? Who the the fuck are they to tell me how to treat my partner? I’m sorry for going off on a tangent, but news like this is truly sicking. What disturbs me even more is that you have these mindless robots supporting this extremism, and if we keep going on this pace…it’ll be the end of Saudi. Saudi needs major reforms, and the king should stop pussy footing and let us PLEASE see some drastic change. I am fed up with the endless talks that seem to take us nowhere, I am sick of the tribal bullshit, I am sick of one sole interpertation of a diverse religon, I am sick of Saudi.

    Saudi Jawa: There may be a law that they need approval to engage a high speed car chase, but as with most rules in Saudi…it’s solely left to collect dust in papers. My cousin was young and stupid, took his father’s car and was driving recklessley. He caught the attention of one our pudgy men in brown, and the chase ensued! They ended blocking the car my cousin was in, forecfully pulling him out and slapping him right across the face. Of course coming from a no name family, our complaints fell on deaf ears, and some crazed violent cop is patrolling our grimey streets. The problem with Saudi is that the people that have the power to bring change are too comfortable in their positions to ever risk losing that, fuck the selfishness. We need some sort of movement to unite us all…conservatives/liberals/men/women/hermits/camels…we need one voice, we need change.

    I’m sorry for whoring your comment box, but it seemed like the best place to vent . I love your blog, I love what you stand for, and I hope to have the honor to meet you one day. Fight the good fight buddy!

  44. great site ahmd
    me and lirun and every israeli support you in your quest
    maybe you talk about how same people supporting phalistinian terrorist next time you post

  45. Broke Saudi…You spoke from your Heart I can see that..But I think you have a lot of anger inside you…To tell you honestly..I couldnt handle all this snopping around my life..Just told my parents I cant live in saudi..I Love My country But I need to be me..So here I am In UAE..My own career ..My own Life…There are things we just cant change..

  46. Young adults are notorious for doing stupid things when they feel threatened. If they believed that there was a violation of the law, I agree with one of the posters–they should have taken down the license plate info and passed it on to the police. High-speed car chases–maybe MAYBE if you are chasing a dangerous criminal. But two kids in a car?

    May G-d comfort their families–they must be going through hell.

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